RE: religion/spirituality

From: Vincent Campbell (v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk)
Date: Fri Nov 17 2000 - 12:39:55 GMT

  • Next message: Gatherer, D. (Derek): "RE: religion/spirituality"

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    From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
    To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: religion/spirituality
    Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:39:55 -0000
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    >Derek:
    >I've heard this argument before in memetic circles and it's a very
    poor one
    >indeed. Are you really suggesting that people are converted to
    monotheism
    >just because they prefer to learn one word rather than 20 or so???

    Well, the question had been one of why is monotheism better, from a person
    asking about reasons for believing. I was just suggesting a possible
    matter-of-fact reason, but no I certainly wouldn't seriously suggest that
    convenience was the main factor in conversion. I was possibly being
    slightly facetious (I can't remember my mood at the time of posting) in my
    militant atheism. After all, the only people I despair more about than true
    believers, are those who can't make up their minds one way or the other.
    >
    >
    >In any case, are you suggesting that devotees of polytheistic
    religions actually
    >know the names of all the gods and their concomitant purposes etc?

    No, but that's part of the problem. This manifests itself in two ways.
    First, people in polytheist religions don't follow all the gods, but tend to
    follow particular ones (or groups of gods), and preferencing one god (or set
    of gods) over another is a major factor in ancient social conflict. Second,
    when there are many different gods and something happens, say a harvest
    failure, how to alleviate that by performing the right ritual for the right
    god is incredibly complex for ordinary people to get their heads round.
    Sometimes these two things go together, and of course has been widely
    utilised by the keepers of the sacred knowledge- the priests/shamen etc.,
    who hold the power in such societies by knowing the entire pantheon, and in
    any situation "knowing" which god, which ritual etc. etc. is needed.
    >
    >
    >Most Christians can only with great difficulty explain matters of
    theology, so
    >why should the required knowledge base of a religion (at expert
    theological
    >level) be of any relevance to its spread???

    Well I think this seems obvious to me. One, over-arching, all powerful god
    to attribute everything good, bad and indifferent in the world to, is an
    easy system for most people to use to deal with their questions/problems.
    The less complex the basic elements of the religion the broader base it can
    potentially reach. This doesn't mean it will though.

    >The psychology of religious
    >conversion and experience is far more complicated than some kind of
    word
    >memory game. People converting to a religion usually do so in a
    kind of
    >inexplicable mood shift ('the road to Damascus' experience), and
    only later
    >start to rationalise it, which might then include learning a little
    theology
    >(but not much in the case of most people).

    Oh yeah, absolutely. But we're not talking so much about the experience of
    religious conversion, but the convenience of particular systems for being
    transmitted, and thus why some religions are more widespread than others.
    I've said before, the judeo-christian-islamic body of religions all started
    in particular socio-political circumstances that shaped their contents, and
    their initial successes- but core to that success was undoubtedly the
    unifying aspect of the monotheism, just as the 20th century saw political
    ideologies of fascism and communism utilise similar appeals to unity through
    a single 'correct' path.
    Monotheism might thus been seen as a kind of 'class' struggle- between the
    elite religious castes who have all the knowledge and power, and the new
    believers with their more straight-forward, and inclusive belief systems.
    For example evangelicals believe in a personal relationship with god, so
    christenings are out until the person is old enough to make their own
    decision to make that relationship with god, with the intended effect that
    the belief is stronger as a result.

    Vincent

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