Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA16328 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:59:49 GMT Message-ID: <A4400389479FD3118C9400508B0FF2300410D9@DELTA.newhouse.akzonobel.nl> From: "Gatherer, D. (Derek)" <D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Researcher finds sites of brain activated by romance Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:54:52 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Brent:
Love might have a biological basis but many of the behaviors associated with
love (giving flowers, saying "I love you", holding hands, etc) are
transmissible cultural traits.
Derek:
Absolutely, but then they are behaviours, so I have no problem with seeing
them as memes.
Brent:
The question is, how far does such behavior go towards defining the
*feeling* of being in love? Without the cultural aspect, the *feeling*
might be different.
Derek:
Absolutely again. The mind tags along _behind_ the behaviour (that's why
behavioural therapy for phobias seems to work so well). By contrast,
internalist memeticists want the mind to precede the behaviour. They want
cultural love behaviours to follow from replication of the internal neural
configuration.
Brent:
Consider some non-western people. They have the same biology as us, but
they have no notion of 'romantic love' (unfortunately I can't cite a source
for this info -- I read it many years ago and can't remember where).
Derek:
Yes, there are also some people that reckon that romantic love entered
European culture around the 11th century, and coincided with the rise of the
troubadours and the chanson de geste etc. There is a big difference in
musical atmosphere between people like Marcabru (mid-11th century, eg. 'Pax
in nomine domine' which despite its title is mostly about slicing up
Saracens) and Guiot de Dijon (about a century later eg. "Chanterai por mon
corage" the first love song?) and Le Chatelain de Coucy (eg. "Li noviaus
tens"). I'm a big fan of this stuff.
Brent:
I wonder if they *feel* the same as us when their brain goes into the 'love
state'.
Derek:
I don't know.
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