Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA27187 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:07:13 GMT From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: addendum to mysticism etc. Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:04:27 -0800 Message-ID: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJGEJGFLAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745AFA@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent wrote:
>I know Richard Brodie hasn't posted for a while, and I assume that's either
>because he's off doing something, or he got bored with this thread, or I
>offended him (not intended if the last is true).
Not at all.
>Sometimes ideas like those
>Richard has presented in this thread focus essentially on
>self-actualisation- people making their own choices about what to believe
>in, how to view themselves and their lives, but different people aren't in
>the same socio-economic positions to do this. Poverty undoubtedly has a
>significant influence on the kinds of choices people can make in terms of
>what gives them feelings of well-being, and undoubtedly impacts on others'
>perceptions of them, which in turn impacts on well being. Look for example
>at how in modern developed nations, amongst the largest pariah groups are
>the homeless.
Sounds like it would make you feel good to help the impoverished, so I would
recommend you go do it.
>This kind of thing is precisely why I'm so eager to attack certain kinds of
>belief-systems, because they are about ameliorating the emotions of
>situations people find themselves in, not actually dealing with that
>situation.
It's a common myth that negative emotions are symptoms of a situation that
needs to be addressed. In reality many people have unpleasant emotions
constantly but those emotions do not lead to solutions to problems or to any
kind of progress. What leads to progress is clear thinking, a clear sense of
purpose, and action in line with those two. Knee-jerk reaction to painful
emotions, as Albert Ellis taught, is what gets us in trouble.
> Untouchables in India clean the shit out of higher castes' homes
>in many villages, in exchange for being given food (the higher castes have
>to be careful when handing the food over, if they touch them they have to
>bathe straight-away). Their faith tells them not to do anything about
this,
>that they must fulfill their duties so that in the next life they will move
>up one rung on the caste ladder. Yes, indeed, this may make many of them
>feel better about their lot, but it doesn't change their being treated like
>dirt, moreover it is precisely a means of perpetuating the system that
holds
>them in that position.
It is not necessary to be unhappy to move up in the world. There are plenty
of dissatisfied poor people in America who never move up the status
hierarchy significantly no matter how many times they are bombarded with
memes telling them they can't be happy until they have the right job, the
right car, the right mate. This is the land of opportunity. Millions of
people raise themselves from poor families to financial independence. It
takes a pragmatic attitude, hard work, and luck. It does not take feeling
miserable.
As for your observation that it rabble-rousing is an effective political
instrument, I doubt you'll find much disagreement. But don't get fooled
again.
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.memecentral.com
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Nov 10 2000 - 15:09:20 GMT