Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA24369 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:43:17 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745A9F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Wimsatt on memes at the Uni Pittsburgh Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:40:54 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>> Theories of cultural evolution need to pay much more attention
than we
>> have to the fine structure of ideas and cultural practices of the
sort
>> studied by humanists, historians, and anthropologists. This
isn't just
>> a conciliatory gesture: the possibility of having generative
systems
>> which transmit and maintain myriad fine details is crucial to
what it is
>> to have a culture, a symbolic system, and intentionality.
>I certainly agree with this. One of the reasons I cannot take
memetics
>seriously is that no card-carrying memeticist seems to know much of
anything
>about culture, nor seems to have any interest in learning. It's
all just
>self-involved recirculating chatter about mental memes.
Oooh, fighting words these! :-)
Of course this statement assumes there is given knowledge about culture that
in some way memeticists (or those interested in memetics) lack.
However, the range of disciplines that have considered issues and questions
about culture (such as anthropology, psychology, cultural studies, and my
own field of media studies to name but a few) have often produced completely
stupid and obtuse theories about culture, such that there is still much for
any and all disciplines to learn about culture- so much that pouring scorn
on those taking the memetic approach doesn't really help anybody. Certainly
the inference that memeticists don't want to learn anything should not be
based on the contents of this list, and is highly disingenuous to those who
have invested time and effort into researching culture in this way.
After all, at a superficial level, everyone knows something about culture
because we all live in (at least) one. Despite many years of research, its
questionable just how far beyond experiential knowledge of culture other
disciplines have gone.
So what exactly is it that isn't known about culture by memeticists?
I have stated ad infinitum about the deficiences of awareness of media
theory in memetics- but note theory not knowledge, and I don't equate that
with the memetics theorists not wanting to learn. If you're similarly
positing that memeticists are unaware of existing theoretical frameworks for
evaluating culture that already exist in other disciplines, then I'd concur.
If however, you're saying that there is given knowledge that memeticists not
only don't know but don't want to know, then I'd have to disagree
profoundly, in terms of both the existence of given knowledge (there isn't
any), and the attitudes of memeticists (those of whom I've read, and
conversed with via this list, have all shown a clear interest in learning,
as far as I'm concerned).
Vincent
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