Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id JAA11142 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:04:53 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745A97@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: memetic or genetic laziness Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:02:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I appreciate what you're saying here, that we rationalise our laziness (I
know I do all the time!), but I think the point was not so much to do with
what we tell ourselves about our own behaviour to make it make sense to us,
but the possible need driven nature of our behaviours. When food supplies
are plentiful and easy to access, and mates are nearby (and also easy to
access), and dangers are minimal, then large periods of inactivity result.
In conscious organisms large periods of inactivity- or rather periods when
nothing has to be done in way of food/courting/mating/fighting/fleeing- lead
to boredom, apathy and so on, organisms.
Of course, this may account for the extent of memetic saturation as we find
other things to occupy our time (e.g. philosophising and coming up with
weird rituals and stuff, or exploring things, art etc.), but I still think
the essence of boredom is genetic.
It's just occured to me that animals in zoos are often proscribed as being
bored by their zoo-keepers. Is this simply anthropomorphism? Certainly
there's evidence of psychological problems for zoo animals kept in enclosed
empty spaces (e.g. pacing back and forth in a repetitive manner, self harm
and so on), or again, that 's how it's interpreted by humans.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Brent Silby
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:02 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: memetic or genetic laziness
>
> Vincent Campbell wrote: "Aren't other animals capable of laziness, or
> idleness perhaps?"
>
> It is true that some members of other species give the "appearance" of
> laziness, but I think there is a difference between their idleness and
> human laziness. Animals such as lions probably spend a lot of time doing
> nothing to conserve energy. If a gazell runs across a lion's visual
> field, it would probably leap at it. A human on the other hand might just
> look at the gazell and think "... shall I catch it? Nah! Too much
> hassle, I can't be bothered. I'd rather sit around and do nothing." This
> is a choice that the lion doesn't have the ability to entertain.
>
> The idea that doing nothing is desirable, is an idea that is unique to
> humans. It could be passed on by observing the pleasure others take in
> relaxing. This leads me to believe that laziness is a behavior that has
> memetic causes.
>
> Cheers...
>
> Brent.
> ______________________
> --Brent Silby 2000
> What is a Meme?
> Find out Here:
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> Room 601a
> Department of Philosophy
> University of Canterbury
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> __________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vincent Campbell
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:33 PM
> Subject: RE: memetic or genetic laziness
>
> Aren't other animals capable of laziness, or idleness perhaps?
>
> For example, male lions do very little but fight for mates, and
> mate, the
> hunting is done by the females, as is the rearing of young. Would
> it be
> wrong to see the male lions' use of their 'spare' time as laziness
> if they
> simply lie around and sleep (which I believe they do for the
> majority of
> hours in the day)?
>
> I've also seen (on TV documentaries) chimps seem capable of acts
> that imply
> they haven't anything 'better' to do (i.e. feeding, fighting,
> mating,
> cementing social bonds by grooming etc.), including a remarkable
> scene in
> which a chimp appeared to simply be watching the flowing water of a
> stream
> rush over their hand in the sunlight. Also there are occasions,
> such as
> during heavy rainfall, where there's little for the chimps to do but
> to try
> and get under a bit of cover and avoid getting wet.
>
> Perhaps a related question is the origins of boredom, but I suspect
> this too
> could have its pre-cursors in other animals' behaviour.
>
> Vincent
>
> > ----------
> > From: phil066@it.canterbury.ac.nz
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:08 pm
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: memetic or genetic laziness
> >
> >
> > >It's totally and completely and only laziness, Tim.
> > >
> > >- Wade (who is prone, he admits)
> >
> > I am interested in whether traits such as laziness are memetic or
> genetic.
> > Our ancestors might have had some survival difficulties if
> laziness was a
> > biologically endowed trait, so I think it might be a socially
> acquired
> > behavior. But where would such a behavior have its origin?
> >
> > Brent.
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Brent Silby
> > Room 601a
> > Department of Philosophy
> > University of Canterbury
> > New Zealand
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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