Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA03357 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 5 Oct 2000 01:22:37 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20001004183717.008376d0@mailhost.rongenet.sk.ca> X-Sender: hawkeye@mailhost.rongenet.sk.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:37:17 -0600 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk, memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Lloyd Robertson <hawkeye@rongenet.sk.ca> Subject: Re: Purported mystical "knowledge" In-Reply-To: <20000917100006.C957@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <3.0.5.32.20000916205156.0081aac0@mailhost.rongenet.sk.ca> <200009142049.QAA28199@mail6.lig.bellsouth.net> <200009161917.PAA18118@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> <39C3DBD9.A6DECE06@fcol.com> <3.0.5.32.20000916205156.0081aac0@mailhost.rongenet.sk.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 10:00 AM 17/09/00 +0100, Robin Faichney wrote:
>
>The "non-material reality" consists of information -- though it's very
>solidly based on matter. Memes are items of information, encoded in
>both neural and behavioural patterns. When someone observes another's
>behaviour, the meme travels from behaviour to brain, changing its form
>from behavioural to neural encoding. When that person subsequently
>performs the same behaviour, the process is reversed. The uncertainty
>is that inherent in any en/de/recoding process: the outcome depends not
>only on what "went into" the carrier, but also what key is used to get
>it out again.
>
Granted that information (defined broadly to include misinformation) is
"non-material". Granted, as well, that all of this information is solidly
based on the physical world. If we view this "information" as being made up
of memes that may have properties of attraction and repulsion with respect
to other memes. And if this means that various "memeplexes" evolve
competing for mind-space (perhaps defined by the neural networks of which
you refer) then, using Dennett's ecosystem analogy, we have another level
or plane of existance which cannot be Lamarkian because, at the mass level,
it evolves independently of any "will" the communicative "bags of mostly
water" hosts may have.
Not that the memeplexes have any will. They merely survive to evolve based
on the number of minds they have collected algorythmically. Any benefit
accruing to the holders of those minds is incidental - like the benefit
cattle have by being protected from wolves. There are plenty of examples,
however, where successful memeplexes have produced behaviors detremental to
individual well being.
In summary the gods do exist. But not as discrete thinking entities. They
exist as "body parts" of certain successful (and an even larger number of
unsuccessful) memeplexes. Another name for the spiritual world is
"memeworld" (perhaps we can get Kevin Costner to star in a movie of that
name). And the varios sects of Buddhism also have places in that world as
does the secular spirituality of humanism.
Whattya think?
Lloyd
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