Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA20219 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:48:50 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745A5D@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: the conscious universe Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:46:25 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
You are taking a perceived gap in current scientific knowledge- the exact
location of consciousness- as an opportunity to fling in every wish and
belief you've ever held that makes you feel good.
But of course in doing so you ignore very straightforward questions- like
where's the evidence that stones or hydrogen are conscious?
This reminds me of that alien race in Douglas Adams' 'The Hitchhikers Guide
to the Galaxy', that was a hyper intelligent shade of the colour blue. Is
blue conscious in your universe?
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Robin Faichney
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Monday, October 2, 2000 9:19 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: the conscious universe
>
> Cutting to the chase, here:
>
> On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:10:33PM -0500, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> > But you are also denying any necessity of a complex pattern in the
> > material substrate from which consciousness can emerge. That
> > position has no evidence for it, and reams of evidence against it
> > (the undeniable complexity of any systen we can prove to be
> > conscious by means of its reaction to the sensed).
>
> My computer can be said to react to sensing its keys being pressed by
> putting characters up on the screen (as well as doing much other stuff).
> Explain how "reaction to the sensed" is evidence of consciousness.
>
> My position: There is, and can be, no objective evidence for (or against)
> consciousness, in individuals or in the universe, because it is entirely
> subjective, a "matter of opinion" as opposed to one of fact, which is why
> it is entirely legitimate to suggest that it be considered a universal
> attribute, instead of inexplicably being located in some systems that
> exceed some arbitrary degree of complexity.
>
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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