Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA09626 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:28:04 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745A33@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: memetics and knowledge Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:25:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Leaving aside that last line ("analogy between walking and
cycling"?),
You don't recall your own point? The walking/cycling analogy was yours.
>I flatly rejected it because it has nothing to do with mysticism.
As I
>use the term, that is, of course, which is the more specific,
technical
>meaning, not the common one, because I've clearly explained why I
see
>that as misuse based on ignorance. You continue to insist that I'm
a
>true believer in religious superstition -- I can't think of any
other
>reason for that, but that your prejudice, your lack of rationality
on
>this issue, is preventing you from taking in what I'm saying. Face
it:
>despite your repetitive demands for a definition of experience,
there is
>no difference between us on that -- while for the term on whose
definition
>we do differ -- mysticism -- you pretend we don't. And that's
irrational.
Once again, you claim a 'more specific, technical' meaning of the term
mysticism without having actually explained what that is.
Once again, you claim we're using experience in the same sense whilst at the
same time refusing to define it, which increasingly makes me think we're
using the term in different ways.
You can't have you cake and eat it too: if you want people to understand
your interpretation of mysticism, and why it is preferable to all the other
definitions and interpretations that have been proferred, then you've got to
explain it more fully. What you can't seem to accept is that just because
they're your interpretations, that doesn't give them any greater status than
any other. Besides which, if you've been investigating this for 20 odd
years, I'd of thought by now you should be able to offer a cogent, evidenced
and coherent set of definitions, descriptions and substantiation for your
point of view. Thus far you have failed to do this.
My position towards mysticism is not one of ignorance, but of skepticism,
which is an entirely rationalist approach towards claims to knowledge. The
skeptic asks for clarification of the claims, and evidence to support them.
You have clearly denied the possiblity of clarifying the meaning of, and the
possiblity of evidence for, mysticism, hence one must for the time being
remain skeptical, which is an entirely rational response.
But, let's assume for a moment that you're right, that I (and most other
'common' people) are entirely ignorant of what mysticism means. What should
your response then be? Condemn people or laugh at them for their lack of
knowledge? Or, as any good teacher should, endeavour to rid people of that
ignorance through explanation and teaching. I see the former in the tone of
your comments, not the latter.
>I didn't mean to do any replies this morning, but I was goaded into
it,
>and now I'm late for my Real World activities. I hope you're
happy!
>:-)
I constantly find myself spending far too much of my working time paying
attention to this list, so you're not alone there. Of course, distracting
oneself and distracting others are very different things, so apologies for
distracting you. :-)
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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