Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA04506 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 19 Sep 2000 04:32:35 +0100 Message-Id: <200009190330.XAA21599@mail0.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:33:47 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: memetics and knowledge In-reply-to: <20000918115912.A1617@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <200009172009.QAA03567@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 03:10:51PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Date sent: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:59:12 +0100
From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: memetics and knowledge
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 03:10:51PM -0500, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> > >
> > One can completely communicate the multiplication tables, but it
> > would still take practice to commit it to memory, just like riding a
> > bicycle.
>
> In your "How to Ride A Bike", you didn't explain the most important,
> and most difficult aspect: how to maintain one's balance. Noone ever
> told me that, either, and I doubt very much whether many bike riders ever
> had it explained to them. Even if they did, they'd need practice before
> they could do it effectively, but that's NOT because it needs committing
> to memory -- it is basically very simple: just steer in the direction
> towards which you find yourself leaning -- unlike the multiplication
> tables, so simple that it can easily be memorised on first being heard.
> What's actually required here is the motor skill of doing that, to
> the correct degree, automatically. If it's not automatic, it's not
> fast enough -- like juggling, the conscious mind just isn't up to
> it, and until the unconscious mind "gets" it, it can't be done.
>
> I'd suggest that people who "teach" bike riding usually don't bother
> to communicate that just because the automation of it is so important,
> that conscious knowledge of it is little or no help. In fact, it wasn't
> until I'd been happily riding to and from school every day for years that
> I realised what I was doing to maintain my balance. And I think I only
> realised it then, because someone told me, or I read it somewhere.
>
> The key word here is "skill". Now, we can argue about whether skills and
> knowledge are overlapping or disjoint sets, but that's just semantics,
> isn't it? And I'm not wedded to "mystical knowledge", anyway -- "mystical
> skill" works just as well for me. But the point is, what's central to
> both bike riding and mysticism can't be communicated directly, for the
> same reason -- and in neither case -- despite mysticism's reputation
> among those ignorant of it -- is it some special secret.
>
> Maybe I should say, I do understand that the common "mysticism" meme
> has thoroughly innoculated people against the concepts associated
> with the technical meaning of the word, and I sympathise. It's like
> "intentionality" -- the common usage tends to obscure the technical
> meaning even among those whom you'd think really should know better --
> but that's the power of the meme!
>
Actually, when people first hear the multiplication tables, they have
trouble with them; it takes a bit of practice and attention to 'get
them down', just as riding a bike takes a while before one masters
balance. However, in both cases, once it is routinized, the skill
becomes automatic, requiring practically no conscious attention to
exercise.
The sequence by which new information becomes routinized to the
point of being second nature (how one gains expertize and
becomes an expert) is outlined in MIND OVER MACHINE: THE
POWER OF HUMAN INTUITION AND EXPERTIZE IN THE ERA
OF THE COMPUTER by Dreyfus & Dreyfus. The stages are the
same regardless of the skill being mastered, be it mathematical,
verbal or somatic.
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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