Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA15294 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:10:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c00c70$93cc8ae0$5109bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017459AB@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !? Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:37:49 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent you wrote,
> In a way are you saying that, perhaps a society has to be "ready" for a
> theory, and (parts of) the USA simply aren't quite ready for the
> implications of Darwinism?
<< Yes, in a sense a society has to be ready for a theory, for the
implications
of Darwinism or like now in Rusland, for tragic news. People, institutions
and structures are bound to what I call ' emotional bounderies '. Memes,
any kind,
won 't/ can 't cross those, because other memeplexes are stronger_are hol-
ding back new info f.e. People like in Rusland, after the disaster with the
Koersk, were ' prepared ' for the sad news that all the seaman were dead.
The believe in a miracle (a emotional bounderie) had to be crossed/ replaced
by another. The bounderie was broken by the Norwegian divers...
But, in the case of the USA I will not say that they are not ready, the
better
term would be ' not evolved in to it '.
Remerber earlier posts where I put forward my stand on Lamarckism in the
USA. Remerber that I had a few doubts if Darwinism will be excepted in
the USA or not.
Well, I thought this issue further through and did came up with this.
I think we have to make a division between what the religion in the USA is
and that of Europe. IMHO, the USA is more Christian- like. Europe more
Catholic, what in fact is a sub- division of Christianity.
So, in the USA with their more Christian- like faith are more bound to moral
convictions, devine revelation and creation, what is shown troughout
society.
Europe with the Catholic approach is more in agreement with antquity and
with the consensus of distinguiched theological opinions in former
generations.
The USA uses Christianity more precise, more inclusive_faith, hope, love
(towards men) and charity_they trust in the way of God. Men is as the crown
of God 's creation, men can 't be an decendent of the apes. That is Anti-
Darwinism.
In Europe we loosing that notion. Only the ' true believers' are still like
that!
The USA places Christianity above it all, they use it as a goal.
In Europe it is more a principle, we are working with it. We bring Christian
principles to the particular environments of which people are part.
In Europe we use Christianity as in the formula_ " what all men have at all
times and everywhere believed must be regarded as true ". That is more a
sense of orthodox.
We use it in the development of a wholesome and beneficent social action.
In the USA it is more a doctrine.
That is why I think the USA is more Lamarck orientated and Europe more
Darwinian.
But how in the first place is that possible !?
Americans, are and were European immigrants, and IMHO there lies the key
for this puzzle.
If we take the issue in the context as written as above, a strange effects
comes
forward_somehow the first immigrants had to change from Catholics into
USA-Christians (exuse me for that term). How and why, it is still the same
believe, though !? As seen as above, no, there is a difference and just that
difference is the explanation.
I suppose when the first immigrants set foot on the American shore, that the
land was wild, inhospitable, strange and full with strange creatures which
we
call now Indians. In order to overcome those problems, to set up a new
society the application of rules was necessary, but then and only in the
strict way. And with the notion that most of the immigrants were poor
people,
the prospect of a new country gave them hope. And just that is one of
the cornerstones of Christianity, HOPE !!
And those people, already believing the Christian doctrine, were open to the
reasons given to them by the priests_work hard, believe, give love, never
give up hope and salvation will come.
In a sense Darwinism had never really a chance in the USA that due to the
fact that the land was already ' evolved ' into its own seperate doctrine
which
we see now back in political thought_that is the moral convictions.
Look what happened to Clinton, it was not the fact that he and Monica had
something going on, but the fact that the deed was immoral played the major
part in the issue. See what Joseph Lieberman had to say about that...
I don 't think such an issue is possible in Europe. Blair, Kohl or Mitterand
for that manner may have affairs, but to expose them on TV with the fact,
well...
The term ' not evolved in to it ' is a result of the absence of an archaic
period
in the history of the USA, there were no (neo) feudal or patriarchal forms
wherein Catholism could ' evolve ' into some form of Christianity, that is
the Church of England, Lutheranism, Reformism and/ or Free Churches.
Darwinism was rapidly dismissed because it was not sound with the adoration
of the glory of GOD which was felt by the new Americans, that as a result
of their struggle to stay alive.
Another possibility, but a very strange one, could be that the first
immigrants,
by some daft luck or a special selective thread of nature were all '
special ',
that is, they apostated Christianity due to the fact that the position they
were
in, in Europe was ' hopeless '...some memetic lineage pulled them over...
Regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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