Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA01685 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:02:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c007b8$75ae2da0$940fbed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017459A7@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Changing threads/ American Nationalism !? Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:11:01 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent wrote what I said,
> You said-
>
> > > If we all suppose Darwin was right, and we gave him all the regards
that
> > > goes with it_and on the other hand half of the worlds population
thinks
> he
> > > got it all wrong,...where is the benefit of Darwinism then !?
> > > There is some contradiction somewhere, no !?
>
> Adding to Derek's point, Darwinism is also useful in retrodiction-
offering
> the most satisfactory theory so far as to the origin of species. No
theory
> before Darwin's could plausibly explain dinosaurs, for example, (bit of a
> guess here, as I've no idea if Lamarck had anything to say about
dinosaurs),
> and certainly the judeo-christian-muslim creation stories could not, and
> cannot account for them (oh, wait a minute, don't they claim they now
claim
> they were all killed in the great flood? yeah well...).
Adding to both your posts,
<< That is just the point I wish to make, you can 't explain dinosaurs to
the half
of the worlds population because they don 't buy Darwins story !!
And like I see it, in America it is worse than where ever, due to the fact
that
their political belief (and that is one of the major players in exepting or
not
of a theory) is impressed on the one hand by the Creatonist believe and on
the other hand by Reform Lamarckism !!
I don 't see how in that environment Darwinism can get to any practical
bene-
fit...!!
See below, you mention the reasons why.
In addition to that, the reason why Creatonists will have a go, once again
at
Darwinism, now that is called Reform Lamarckism, is that a religion uprise
will cause a decline in moral abuse. A religion uprise would be better for
the
society, because it would mean lesser poverty, lesser crime etc...
The struggle in America would be IMHO of great importance for the further
acceptance of Darwinism throughout the rest of the world.
If Darwinian scientist would fail, I think of the worst scenario possible...
> Half the world may reject it as a theory because it undermines their
> existing belief-systems- or at least it does if they are fundamentalist
> believers in their religious texts. Much the same thing happened with the
> Copernican world system, which many people worked out was more accurate
than
> the Ptolemaic system, but so much was at stake in this that lives were
> literally on the line over accepting/refuting this view (most obviously in
> Galileo's case where the Vatican priests refused to see what was evident
> through the telescope- or many indeed have simply been unable to see
because
> their world-view wouldn't allow it), and it took many, many years to
become
> accepted.
> As to your point about key people/moments in nation's sense of identity,
> well yes I think that's a factor. The problem with the A-bombs in Japan,
> however, is that the survivors (I believe they're called hibakusha)
although
> able to get on with their lives have always been regarded rather as
pariahs
> in Japan (a bit like Vietnam vets in the USA)- perhaps because they are
> living reminders of defeat. with any defining moment, there will be
groups
> of people excluded,
Just in addition, again a program on BBC world this week, Life Untouchable,
about the lower caste in Indian society...I can understand the philosophy
behind why parents/ people are reduced to nothing, but the children born in
their mids...that is something what escapes me, though !!
Talking about pariahs, brrr...
Many regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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