Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA21910 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:16:10 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745972@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Hymenoepimecis Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:13:51 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
My contribution here will undoubtedly be worth a hell of lot less than 2
cents, but I offer it anyway.
This reminds me a little of research that got press coverage a few years
ago, where spiders were given various psychoactive drugs (cannabis, ecstacy
etc.), and the results were seen in terms of their subsequent web formation,
which varied wildly.
It also reminds me of the idea of the variability in bird songs. There are
plenty of species of bird that can mimic other sounds, and vary their own
songs- there's one, whose name I can't remember at all, that is startlingly
good at mimicking all sorts of noises, including the sound of chainsaws that
are rapidly eroding their forests. But there are also birds, like the
cuckoo or cowbird, whose songs are much more likely to be fixed, indeed
genetically fixed, otherwise they'd never recognise a potential mate.
Web-spinning would seem to me to be akin to the latter variety of bird-song,
and thus not a cultural practice.
Finally, IMHO, cultural tranmission does not (cannot?) involve this kind of
direct chemical interaction between host and recipient. But it does raise
the question of how chemicals might affect memes.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Bruce Jones
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2000 3:27 pm
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Hymenoepimecis
>
> > From: Gatherer, D. (Derek)
> [SMTP:D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl]
> > Subject: RE: Hymenoepimecis
> >
> [BJ] I am going to throw in my $0.02 here -- for what it is worth.
>
>
> > Derek:
> > But those 'neural ciruits driving web creation' must be largely
> > genetically
> > determined. .... <snip> .... The hanging structure is not
> > non-genetic, merely non-normal in a healthy spider. The spider's
> activity
> > is best explained as perturbation of normal genetically-programmed
> > instinct
> > by an environmental agent, the toxin.
> >
> [BJ] I agree with your statement here. I feel that the apparently
> abnormal behavior is a genetic trait. Not all genes in any organism are
> active during the lifetime of the organism. Some have to be awakened or
> by-passed to become functional. In the human this may be a cancer cell or
> an insulin producing gene that becomes turned on or shut off due to some
> external or internal influence. Recent discoveries in microbiology have
> indicated that some of the resistance developed by bacteria to antibiotics
> is due to a turning on of a genetic sequence designed to protect the
> bacteria. This may be the case with the spider and the wasp. Millions of
> years of interdependence and evolution have allowed the wasp a mechanism
> to
> turn on or off a certain genetic function within the spiders genome thus
> offering the wasp a survival mechanism.
> [BJ] This may or may not be related to memetic transfer in human
> culture. However, the actions and practices of cults tend to behave in
> the
> same manner. The 'neural circuits' driving normal behavior are short
> circuited and cause the individual to behave in a 'non-normal' way found
> in
> a socially healthy individual. The individuals activity is best explained
> as a perturbation of normal memeticaly-programed social behavior.
>
> > Derek:
> > Well, I don't agree because I don't understand how wasp larvae can be
> part
> > of a spider 'culture'. I think it would be interesting to hear your
> > definition of 'culture'.
> >
> [BJ] Culture may be a little off base but there is a definitive
> link and therefore maybe the term ecosphere or ecology or bio-zone or
> interdependent co-existence may be a better definition.
>
> Bruce Jones
>
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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