Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA08274 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:16:19 +0100 Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000726111614.00e62100@pop3.htcomp.net> X-Sender: mmills@pop3.htcomp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:13:42 -0400 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Mark M. Mills" <mmills@htcomp.net> Subject: RE: Simple neural models In-Reply-To: <A4400389479FD3118C9400508B0FF230040E6A@DELTA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 09:26 AM 7/26/00 +0200, you wrote:
>a) your attempt to explain it in terms of an electronics-type analogy
>requires you to postulate things about kinases and/or other cellular
>components which won't stand up to scrutiny by molecular biologists.
>
>b) you still don't have a convincing mechanism for your hypothesised
>'memory' effect
>
>c) you are not justified in attaching the label 'memetic' to a process just
>because it is not genetic. Besides, your gene knockout example above
>actually argues the case for _greater_ genetic determination, not less.
Derek,
These are reasonable objections based on your difficulty with Koch's
transistor like kinases.
Points 'a' and 'b' are strongly linked. If kinases have transistor like
properties, the memory effect follows. In a way, 'c' also hangs upon
proof of 'a' as well. Without a memory mechanism at the molecular level, I
have no basis for a non-genetic regulatory structure based on binary charge
states at synapse membranes (neural memetics).
As to the knock-out experiment supporting a gene control model, my
interpretation assumes Koch's transistor analogy holds. The hypothetical
binary memory system requires proteins produced by genetic action. I don't
want to claim it is 'extra-genetic.' I'm only suggesting the conductivity
states (assuming one accepts the transistor analogy) are the result of
neural dynamics (electrical waves, charge dynamics, etc) and established
after the system starts generating random electrical oscillations as a
byproduct of stochastic chemical combinations. In this model, genes do not
establish conductivity states, only the media/substrate.
Again, if the transistor analog doesn't exist, the model falls.
I don't have a copy of Koch's book handy, so it will be a while before I
can do a better job recapping Koch's description of the electrical
properties of autophosphorylating kinases. I've emailed Koch, but he is out
on a archaeological dig until August. I'll post more when I find something
to quote.
Mark
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