Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA28285 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:19:57 +0100 Message-ID: <002201bff283$428c6d00$6b0bbed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D310174592C@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: memetic engineering Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:18:25 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: memetic engineering
> Yes, this is an interesting answer to the situation.
>
> What memes do is help us
> accept our position, which for most of us is subordinate to those with
> power, through things like the the promise of a better life after death.
<< With the concept of individuality increasing a rather strange idea, but
Ok !
That is, subordination to those with power, yes, but it is disminishing.
The increase of individuality holds in itself the concept that ' those with
power ' can 't do with us (anymore) as they please. On the other hand, we
as individuals know our rights !! >>
> But what underlies all societies is a hierarchy, no matter how overtly
> egalitarian, fair, etc. etc. a system claims to be, hierarchies emerge.
<< Not in a post-individuality society !!
In a hyper-individualistic community, memes of individuality are so far
outgrowed that each of us knows instinctly what to do and what to leave.
That is, in the basic assuption of memetic engineering, everyone is then so
far ' engineered ' (due to education) that everybody has as mush knowlegde
as everyone else about the society where he/ she lives in.
That is, everyone is working for eachother, not out of solidarity or
tolerance, no, but just because that is the way we are, then !
Each of us is in origin a self build via memes concept, we are, as humans
so far outgrowed our environment that we all have the same ' bad ' and
the same 'good '.
Nontheless, the issue that does raise questions is when somebody from
outsode the society tells us that our ' good ' is 'bad ' !? >>
> As well as those at the top of the hierarchy getting the best access to
> resources (primarily food and sex), there is also the resource of
knowledge.
<< That is the fear of many politician, and not only to them, that is that
besides the bounderie rich/ ppor the society gets devided into " access
to knowledge-resources " / " no-access to knowledge-resources. >>
> In the Industrial Revolution, for example, mill workers could be fired if
> they could tell the time, because in order to keep control the mill owners
> had to keep that knowledge/ability secret. Taboos are as much about
> knowledge of practices as the actual practices themselves.
<< Like doping in sports, everybody know something about it, but every-
body keeps her/ his mouth shut !! >>
In the UK
> recently, there has been much debate about the mentioning of homosexuality
> in schools, banned by 'clause 28' in the 1980s by the Thatcher government,
> and due to be repealed by the Labour goverment, to much opposition
> particularly in Scotland. The hysteria generated in some quarters of the
> press and the public about this issue was incredible. It was as if people
> thought that children being told there was such a things as homosexuality
> would make the children gay.
<< Kiss a boy, and you are getting pregnant, girl !!
Nine months later...but mum, we never kissed !!
Get it !! >>
> I don't know if this advances our discussion or not; just some idle
> thoughts.
<< You see even those are setting my mind off. >>
Regards,
Kenneth
(I am, because we are)
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