From: Jerry Bryson (jbryson@infionline.net)
Date: Sun 29 Jan 2006 - 21:00:58 GMT
On Jan 28, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Keith Henson wrote:
> At 08:16 PM 1/28/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>> Ben
>>>> This, and the Grayfrier's Bobby seem to be vehicles to convey memes?
>>>
>>> Apparently so - I found this while I was googling earlier:
>>>
>>> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/l/little_dutch_boy.html
>>
>> So, myths certainly carry memes; as do teaching stories. Now. I
>> wonder if there is a difference between myths and recently created
>> stories in the memes they convey.
>
> You are looking at this from the wrong end. Memes and teaching
> stories *are* memes. Intercommunicating human minds are the
> environment for memes.
>
So, what shall we call the little ideas that have been delivered by the
memes and are now rattling around in our heads? i.e. the payloads of
our memes?
> That environment changes and so do the memes that thrive or die out in
> it. For example, a meme about a boy plugging a hole in a dike could
> not exist before there *were* dikes. (I make the case that xenophobic
> memes do well in stressed populations during the run-up to wars.)
And the "inclusive fitness" idea was there before the dike or the
story, right? Is Inclusive fitness a meme?
>
> But the basic meme-theme of inclusive fitness oriented actions is one
> that drives the propagation of this class of memes. I make the case
> that such stories activate our own emotional drivers that would be
> activated if we were in the (usually awful) spot of the
> protagonist(s).
Then we have the story teller, who creates the story and/or selects it
to pass on. What is it in the mind of the creator that exists before
before the story/meme?
>
> Pascal Boyer says similar things about religious memes. In _Religion
> Explained_ he provides list of "beliefs" that we can sort into those
> that make plausible religious beliefs and those that do not. He does
> not explain exactly *how* people can make such decisions, but we
> obviously can.
>
I figure we judge a candidate idea by how well it gets along with
whatever is in our heads.
> He also makes the point that the kind of meme that becomes a dominate
> religious belief depends on the level of the society. State level
> societies have religions that are different in kind from the ones of
> more primitive people.
>
> I should reread his book with a deeper understanding of evolutionary
> psychology.
>
> Incidentally, Robert Wright, author of _Moral Animal_, an early
> popular book on EP, says that popular authors have a better gut feel
> for EP than any psychologist prior to the mid 1990s. That's because
> they are turning on deep seated EP rooted emotions. Consider The
> Fellowship of the Ring as an example.
>
Probably most true of the fantasy and horror genres, in general.
> Keith Henson
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
Jerry
"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're
different."
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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