Re: Dawkins on Channel 4 tonight

From: Chris Taylor (chris.taylor@ebi.ac.uk)
Date: Mon 16 Jan 2006 - 11:25:34 GMT

  • Next message: Derek Gatherer: "Re: Dawkins on Channel 4 tonight"

    The point is that where people have no clearly-grounded non-spiritual hypotheses about why things are the way they are, or should be the way they might not be, God fills a many-faceted niche in their mental make-up. That is a full-on evolutionary-memetic raison d'etre. Evidentiary arguments as to the truth of any assertions about God are unfortunately outwith the boundary of things we can discuss, as there is naught but testimony.

    And anyway isn't the set of things that could be God subsumed by the set of things that are simply aliens? I don't seek to demean a literal God (as opposed to the more C of E view [iyswim] of a personal god) but as we look to and begin to understand the stars and all that, surely religion founded millenia ago need a polish? And although we can tie Judaism to Islam to Christianity on a family tree, would you assert that the many other religions are simply wrong?

    Through my screaming (ex-Catholic) atheism let me acknowledge that church-goers _are_ generally happier than matched controls and do linger longer (that started as a typo but I liked it -- hooray for systemic errors). But how many have died for unsubstantiated belief? I think the jury is still out on whether it is a good thing.

    I of course still think (believe) that sociologists from the stars are playing with us in all this; otherwise it _would_ take a God, or some _really_ unlikely coincidences, to kick it off imho but then I would put God and alien on the same synonym list as I would magic and science, where in both cases the former is a version of the latter that we do not yet understand). Someone should explain the prime directive to these green, betentacled grad students (not that Kirk et al. ever stuck to it).

    And in closing, I would defend with all I have your right to believe what you like in any arena, but you cannot make a substantial defence of it based on a non-proof; we just have to agree to differ from the outset and not jointly open that can of worms again.

    Cheers, Chris.

    Kate Distin wrote:
    > Chris Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> I think the basic thing is that saying 'God says' sidesteps having to
    >> reformulate Kantian ethics every damned time you want your associates
    >> to stop hacking each other to bits.
    >>
    >> God (of whetever kind) is of course attached to all sorts of
    >> (frequently abhorrent) systems. But then evolution kicks in, which
    >> means that of all those nascent irrationally founded belief systems,
    >> only the functional ones (usually Golden Rule plus diet advice plus
    >> washing) survive.
    >>
    >> The basic point is that God shortcuts a lot of argumentation, which in
    >> a philosophically naive context is no bad thing...
    >>
    >> So whatever the reason a seer might see, the reason that meme
    >> proliferates is entirely functional. I reckon. And of course
    >> completely anachronistic for us.
    >>
    >> Cheers, Chris.
    >>
    >>
    >> Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> So is religion than still a disease, a malfunction in the brain !?
    >>> And was, for that matter, Christ himself a patient !?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Regards,
    >>>
    >>> Kenneth
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    > Speculation about the reason why belief in God persists - whether the
    > speculation latches onto genetic or memetic explanations - is irrelevant
    > to the question of religion's *truth*. An evolutionary account of
    > religion is usually *based on* the assumption that God doesn't exist: it
    > is not a proof of that assumption.
    >
    > The same point stands in response to Kenneth's question whether religion
    > is a mental disease. Language like this (or like Dawkins's "mental
    > virus") implies that religion is something harmful and misguided, but
    > neurological explanations of religion are no more relevant to the
    > question of God's existence than evolutionary explanations are.
    >
    > Kate
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >

    -- 
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      chris.taylor@ebi.ac.uk
      http://psidev.sf.net/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    


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