Re: "Abstract" Memes?

From: Davi Johnson (davij@uga.edu)
Date: Wed 30 Nov 2005 - 01:00:24 GMT

  • Next message: John Wilkins: "Re: Giving a presentation on memetics"

    >>Are
    >>relatively enduring concepts/terms/ideologies
    >>like "equality" or "liberty" also memetic,
    >
    >Ask yourself, are they information? Do they replicate? Do
    they influence
    >human behavior?

    That is largely my question: ARE they information (and in what sense)? Because it seems that something like "equality" is very polysemous, and that enhances its longevity. It is attractive to people because its meaning seems so grounded, or evident, but it tends to get deployed with very different connotations and effects. So my difficulty is trying to think _what_ about equality is memetic (or what defines equality as a meme): is it the term itself, and its replication is enhanced by this perceived universality of meaning? Or is it something about the information it embodies. And if the latter is the case (which seems more in line with memetics, to my understanding), how to pinpoint the "essence" of the meme, given its variable usage throughout history and across contexts.

    Things like songs, making shoes and chipping rock (or hanging Xmas trees upside down--just read about this in the AJC and it screamed "meme" to me) seem to me to be more "material" than abstract concepts or ideas, easier to understand as concrete practices. For the abstract ideas, I am stuck on how to identify what might define them as "meme."
    (They definitely influence behavior, and they do seem to replicate).

    >
    >>and if so, in
    >>what sense might they function as memes?
    >
    >Most memes are mundane, like rock chipping or shoe making
    or frivolous such
    >as songs and jokes. But there are memes that induce people
    to die for them
    >of which "equality," "liberty" and whatever drives the
    suicide bombers in
    >Iraq are examples.
    >
    >"The songs of whales and birds and a number of primate
    skills such as
    >cracking nuts or fishing for termites fit the definition of
    memes, so they
    >are not unique to humans. But the *influence* of memes on
    humans is
    >unique. People often *die* due to the influence of memes."
    >
    >>Thanks for any insight,
    >
    >best wishes.
    >
    >Keith Henson
    >
    >
    >============================================================
    ===
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    >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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