From: Lawrence deBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Sun 20 Mar 2005 - 14:44:53 GMT
Greetings, all,
I am coming into this and hope I haven't missed too many of the key points.
As I understand it, the discussion is whether poor social conditions,
overpopulation, etc, are prerequisites for war.
If this is the question, then I think the answer must be that they are not.
We can cite several instances where war occurred without social distress
preceding it:
1. The European assault on the native populations of North America,
including several sub-wars that were motivated by a simple desire to
exterminate a people that were viewed as 'inferior' to the Europeans.
2. The 1602 attack by the Savoyards on Geneva.
3. The US attack on Viet Nam, and now Iraq.
4. The Crusades against Arabs in the Near East, and the Crusade against the
French Cathars of the 13th century.
This is, of course, not to say that wars aren't produced by poor social
conditions -- there are myriad examples of this -- but just to suggest that
human beings go to war for other reasons as well, such as ideology.
Cheers,
Lawrence de Bivort
The Memetics Group
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Scott Chase
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:11 PM
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A time for war.
--- Keith Henson <hkhenson@rogers.com> wrote:
> At 03:49 AM 18/03/05 -0800, Scott Chase wrote:
>
>
> >--- Keith Henson <hkhenson@rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > [Posted this on another list, but since it
> mentions
> > > memes . . . .]
> > >
> > > Re several threads on this list, I make a case
> > > rooted in the stone age that
> > > a lot of the populations of the world are either
> now
> > > stressed (such as
> > > those who dropped out of the middle class in the
> US)
> > > or are anticipating
> > > the world getting worse.
> > >
> > > Exceptions are the Chinese, and a few other
> > > countries where economic
> > > conditions are improving and look like they will
> for
> > > a while.
> > >
> >Not sure how you're excepting the Chinese. Better
> keep
> >an eye on recent news wrt Taiwan. Could become a
> "time
> >for war" sans xenophobia if Taiwan asserts its
> >indepedence as a sovereign state.
>
> snip
>
> When Tiawan and China go to war without first having
> economic problems,
> falling income per capita, or some other situation
> that make the future
> look bleak, then my prognostication will fail.
>
I hope it doesn't fail, especially in this case. But I
consider it my sacred duty to look for possible holes
in your generalizations or cases where they don't
apply.
>
> Making noise doesn't count as war.
>
Yet it's still a conflict nonetheless. And since
Taiwanese and Chinese are relatively homogenous wrt
cultural and historic backgrounds "xenophobic memes"
wouldn't play much of a role in the islander versus
mainlander conflict would they?
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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