Re: Eurovision !! To Derek

From: Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk)
Date: Mon 31 May 2004 - 14:24:57 GMT

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    I think 'generous tit-for-tat' is a version of this strategy in a formal context. It does quite well in the right circumstances...

    Cheers, Chris.

    Van oost Kenneth wrote:

    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "derek gatherer" <dgatherer2002@yahoo.co.uk>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Kenneth,
    >
    >>>_ incredible is that many, like Croations, voted for
    >>>a song of their neighbouring state ! Why !? Where
    >
    > does that sudden friendly gesture would come from !?
    > Derek,
    >
    >>It comes from a kind of memetic reciprocal altruism,
    >>and it's not so sudden, but has been building up over
    >>decades (see my paper)
    >
    >
    > << But what do they exept to get in return_ what can be given
    > and what will be received !?
    > IMO, some countries, speculate...invest in something without, even
    > getting the promise, that something will be gained by their efforts.
    > If all of the neighbouring sides of the Ukraine did speculate, do invest_
    > what will they win in the end_ oil !? Political support !?
    > A 1000 posibilies can be drawn !!
    >
    > And a building up is going on for years, but how can this be !?
    > How can / will you built up a reciprosal altruism within such a large
    > number of people !? And moreover, WHO holds the leach and
    > for what purposes, you never can be sure that people vote the
    > way you want, unless you provided the circumstances in advance...
    >
    > That are IMO questions that aren 't answered !
    > You say, decades, but parts of the former Yugoslavia were than
    > still one country, and are since rather ennemies yo eachother than
    > friends_ giving 10 or more points to your neighbouring ennemy
    > would than do the trick !? I doubt that
    >
    > Kenneth,
    >
    >>>Were the points than already giving to Norway by the
    >>>Swedish audience
    >>>or was it a last minute rescue effort to please the
    >>>neighbour !?
    >
    > Derek,
    >
    >>The rules require the former, so if the latter, then
    >>that was cheating. I'm not going to get into that,
    >>since I think we'd need very compelling evidence to
    >>make such a serious allegation.
    >
    >
    > << Probably, no doubt, but still I am not that sure_ was it
    > Lativia who said it clear, " to our neighbours 10 points, and
    > to our other neighbour Russia 12 points " .
    > Would that suffice to ring any bell, that the votes were manipulated !?
    > I can 't believe that people would be that stupid....
    >
    > That such a contest requires rules is stating the obvious, but rules
    > our bound to be bend and we have no evidence that the points giving
    > were those reflecting the public votes_ we have only the speakers
    > word for it !
    >
    > Kenneth,
    >
    >>>_This years voting was a complete farce, Monaco
    >>>gives 10, or was it 12
    >>>points to France,
    >
    > Derek,
    >
    >>Monaco has traditionally had a reciprocal vote
    >>exchange with the UK, back in the 60s and 70s. They
    >>also have not competed for some 20 years or so, so you
    >>can't infer any pattern from a single year's votes.
    >
    >
    > << True, but isn 't it obvious...I put it in other words, how
    > and why should the people of Monaco vote for a song of
    > France, sung by a Belgium artist !? Taxes !? Fiance !?
    > People in their clear state of mind would never vote for
    > something if there wasn 't any gain in and with it !
    > How can they be sure their vote will give any result and
    > would France accept in the first place?
    >
    > Kenneth,
    >
    >>>Holland did gave points to Croatia, Sebrenicia comes
    >>>to mind....
    >
    > Derek,
    >
    >>Wasn't Srebrenica in Bosnia?
    >
    >
    > << Yes it was, my mistake ! But my point still stands, has
    > Hollland give points to Bosnia in order to compensate the
    > attitude of the Dutch forces during the slaughter within Sebrenicia !?
    >
    > With all do respect, Derek, as far your paper goes is ok by me, but
    > IMO there are still too many questions unanswered. You look from
    > the point of view of the common public, I doubt that so many indivi-
    > duals are bound to a kind of memetic reciprosal altruism so that a
    > country as Ukraine can win !
    > Where do you start for prooving that over decades its neighbouring
    > sides were getting in gear to gratitude in the year 2004 the Ukraine
    > by letting it win the Eurovision Songcontest !?
    > They were once part of one and the same country, and by all means
    > the Baltic state aren 't that keen on Russia and Russians, so why
    > granting them 12 points !?
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Kenneth
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >

    -- 
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk)
      HUPO PSI: GPS -- psidev.sf.net
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    


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