From: Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk)
Date: Mon 31 May 2004 - 14:24:57 GMT
I think 'generous tit-for-tat' is a version of this strategy in a formal
context. It does quite well in the right circumstances...
Cheers, Chris.
Van oost Kenneth wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "derek gatherer" <dgatherer2002@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
>
>
> Kenneth,
>
>>>_ incredible is that many, like Croations, voted for
>>>a song of their neighbouring state ! Why !? Where
>
> does that sudden friendly gesture would come from !?
> Derek,
>
>>It comes from a kind of memetic reciprocal altruism,
>>and it's not so sudden, but has been building up over
>>decades (see my paper)
>
>
> << But what do they exept to get in return_ what can be given
> and what will be received !?
> IMO, some countries, speculate...invest in something without, even
> getting the promise, that something will be gained by their efforts.
> If all of the neighbouring sides of the Ukraine did speculate, do invest_
> what will they win in the end_ oil !? Political support !?
> A 1000 posibilies can be drawn !!
>
> And a building up is going on for years, but how can this be !?
> How can / will you built up a reciprosal altruism within such a large
> number of people !? And moreover, WHO holds the leach and
> for what purposes, you never can be sure that people vote the
> way you want, unless you provided the circumstances in advance...
>
> That are IMO questions that aren 't answered !
> You say, decades, but parts of the former Yugoslavia were than
> still one country, and are since rather ennemies yo eachother than
> friends_ giving 10 or more points to your neighbouring ennemy
> would than do the trick !? I doubt that
>
> Kenneth,
>
>>>Were the points than already giving to Norway by the
>>>Swedish audience
>>>or was it a last minute rescue effort to please the
>>>neighbour !?
>
> Derek,
>
>>The rules require the former, so if the latter, then
>>that was cheating. I'm not going to get into that,
>>since I think we'd need very compelling evidence to
>>make such a serious allegation.
>
>
> << Probably, no doubt, but still I am not that sure_ was it
> Lativia who said it clear, " to our neighbours 10 points, and
> to our other neighbour Russia 12 points " .
> Would that suffice to ring any bell, that the votes were manipulated !?
> I can 't believe that people would be that stupid....
>
> That such a contest requires rules is stating the obvious, but rules
> our bound to be bend and we have no evidence that the points giving
> were those reflecting the public votes_ we have only the speakers
> word for it !
>
> Kenneth,
>
>>>_This years voting was a complete farce, Monaco
>>>gives 10, or was it 12
>>>points to France,
>
> Derek,
>
>>Monaco has traditionally had a reciprocal vote
>>exchange with the UK, back in the 60s and 70s. They
>>also have not competed for some 20 years or so, so you
>>can't infer any pattern from a single year's votes.
>
>
> << True, but isn 't it obvious...I put it in other words, how
> and why should the people of Monaco vote for a song of
> France, sung by a Belgium artist !? Taxes !? Fiance !?
> People in their clear state of mind would never vote for
> something if there wasn 't any gain in and with it !
> How can they be sure their vote will give any result and
> would France accept in the first place?
>
> Kenneth,
>
>>>Holland did gave points to Croatia, Sebrenicia comes
>>>to mind....
>
> Derek,
>
>>Wasn't Srebrenica in Bosnia?
>
>
> << Yes it was, my mistake ! But my point still stands, has
> Hollland give points to Bosnia in order to compensate the
> attitude of the Dutch forces during the slaughter within Sebrenicia !?
>
> With all do respect, Derek, as far your paper goes is ok by me, but
> IMO there are still too many questions unanswered. You look from
> the point of view of the common public, I doubt that so many indivi-
> duals are bound to a kind of memetic reciprosal altruism so that a
> country as Ukraine can win !
> Where do you start for prooving that over decades its neighbouring
> sides were getting in gear to gratitude in the year 2004 the Ukraine
> by letting it win the Eurovision Songcontest !?
> They were once part of one and the same country, and by all means
> the Baltic state aren 't that keen on Russia and Russians, so why
> granting them 12 points !?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> ===============================================================
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>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk) HUPO PSI: GPS -- psidev.sf.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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