Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA07911 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 24 Jun 2000 23:34:48 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: NLP & memes Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:37:35 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIAEPCCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006240119460.28947-100000@marlowe.umd.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Lawrence H. de Bivort
> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2000 3:23
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: NLP & memes
>
>
>
> Chris, would you consider NLP programming (of, say, a state) to be an
> example of a meme being transmitted? Or, in other words, is an NLP
> intervention the same as a memetic one?
>
Umm.. a possible interpretation. The NLP practitioner has a set of general
algorithms that can be applied and the 1:1 session allows for these to be
particularised but all of this process is based within a context set by NLP
is general. The trance states that can be used DO manifest the meme approach
in that the trance acts to bypass the 'wall' of a person's persona, it
utilises the wave approach to getting the message across as does advertising
by using familiar songs etc and uses the general form to transport the
modified words that contain the message.; best way to get through a wall,
use a wave.
However, there is a lot of NLP that deals with not so much a transmission of
an object that is 'stand alone' and operates independently 'in here' but
more so the re-interpretation of an interal experience, the contents of
which is not required to be known by the practitioner. Thus the only change
is the individual's manipulation of sensory systems from within and applied
to something else from within i.e. a memory. I think memes are not so
cooperative? :-)
In this sense the particulars are taken care of by the individual, the
practitioner works with the general. I suppose this is guided
self-programming that is controlled by both parties whereas a meme has an
element of the 'un guided' about it in that you can do little about it but
react; Perhaps NLP could be used to REMOVE a meme :-) but then perhaps that
could be interpreted as one meme replacing another!?
In the transmission process I think there is the recognition of the meme as
being a self-contained 'unit' like a virus that then utilises the
individual's resources to replicate itself outside of the control of the
individual. The usual NLP approach is to give the individual control of
their resources -- to give them choice and so be more proactive than
reactive. Is that mission a meme in itself? I think the more relationships
oriented you are the more of a chance you will pass on a meme or be
susceptable to them since the orientation requires a loose persona barrier
and so a degree of trust in others. Object oriented are more distrusting of
others (gets into the SAMENESS/DIFFERENCE dichotomy touched on the recent
evolution post).
In a 1:many situation, where the 1 is someone like Tony Robbins or whomever
(Hitler?), there is a 'wave' approach used in the form of motivational
patterns that can make the meetings very 'ra ra' in that the playing with
voice highs and lows etc can create a rhythm effect that gets through the
persona barrier (especially of the more relational oriented) and combined
with the local feedback from other people around you gets you stirred up and
this is meme-like and when linked to symbols the recall is so immediate when
the symbol is seen elsewhere that response is uncontrolable and so total.
See Tony Robbins videos or else the film of Hilter's gymnasium speech circa
1933 (?). (NO I am NOT linking Robbins to Fascism, just the METHOD of
communication).
NLP techniques aimed at the particular can be used to refine these abilities
to 'stir' the masses although as others have said there is a degree of old
ideas in new clothes. :-)
best,
Chris.
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