Curmudgeons cudgel

From: Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk)
Date: Thu 29 Jan 2004 - 16:22:24 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: memetics-digest V1 #1464"

    What I love about this list is the ability both to give, and to receive a good cudgelling on a regular basis without resort to ad hominems (too often anyway). I miss ted for that sort of thing -- he was so up for it!

    :)

    Keith Henson wrote:

    > At 10:46 AM 29/01/04 +0000, Chris Taylor wrote:
    >
    > snip
    >
    >> [And now the irresistable opining...]
    >> And btw memes don't 'move' -- a meme is an informational stucture
    >> which is _copied_ across, imperfectly, at the equivalent of the
    >> phenotypic level, followed by an attempt to fill in the encoding
    >> post-hoc -- a process akin in many ways to reverse engineering.
    >
    >
    > It is really nice to see someone else take up the "memes are
    > information" cudgel. Without a doubt memes can be encoded in artifacts,
    > stored in brains, and transferred by performances, but *memes are
    > information.*
    >
    >> This explains why people find that they think about / 'understand'
    >> the same thing in very different ways, especially when ideas are
    >> broken down in argument (or whatever).
    >
    >
    > Yep. And if you need high fidelity transfer, like game rules or
    > multiplication tables, you use the standard methods of redundancy and
    > error checking. That's what education is about, cramming information
    > into brains that can absorb only a few bits per second.
    >
    >> Anyway social science has little to offer at the level of explanation,
    >> what they do have is a wealth of extremely well-studied and classified
    >> phenomena. For example I loved the idea of functionalism (in a
    >> particular sense of the term) when I did some sociology -- a well
    >> characterised phenomenon, but no bottom-up explanation as such. The
    >> best sociology can hope for is to explain society the way old
    >> physicists (Boyle or Rayleigh for example)explained the behaviour of
    >> gases -- at the level of gross phenomena, with no recourse to molecules.
    >
    >
    > I just posted from a 12 year old book on evolutionary psychology which
    > said essentially the same thing. Social "science" is this isolated
    > area, leaving a hole in science about ourselves and our culture.
    >
    > snip
    >
    > Much thanks.
    >
    > Keith Henson
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >

    -- 
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Chris Taylor (christ@ebi.ac.uk)
      MIAPE Project -- psidev.sf.net
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    


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