RE: meme as catalytic indexical

From: M Lissack (lissacktravel@yahoo.com)
Date: Sat 24 Jan 2004 - 19:17:49 GMT

  • Next message: Dace: "Re: meme as catalytic indexical"

    No Richard asking for evidence that a definition makes sense is not nonsensical except perhaps withr egard to religious belief. You are willing to assert that the meme is what replicates but have no basis for the assertion. The evidence you cite can be used to support the idea that the meme is the semiotic sign of something else which replicates. If memetics is to advance it has to be able to find a way to make this distinction other than through naked assertion.

    I commend the depth of the tautological belief but I question the need for the tautology. Darwin mechanics can be tested. The meme as replicator mechanics cannot. Reasoning by analogy can only go so far. If memetics is but analogy then its fate is truly limited.

    --- Richard Brodie <richard@brodietech.com> wrote:
    > M Lissack wrote:
    >
    > > You can assert that communication happens but
    > > what in the world is an in mind mechanism? In the
    > absence of
    > > mechanism how do you distinguish between the meme
    > as
    > > replicator and meme as a sign of something else
    > which
    > > replicates? If you have no means of making that
    > distinction
    > > then the assertion that meme is a replicator is
    > just that
    > > naked assertion -- untestable and merely
    > tautological.
    > > Bruce's challenges are about how memetics can
    > progress from
    > > being regarded as tautology.
    >
    > The meme is defined as a replicator, so asking for
    > evidence that this is the
    > case is nonsensical.
    >
    > Memetics is falsely regarded as a tautology by the
    > same line of thinking
    > that falsely regards any Darwinian mechanism as
    > tautology. The argument
    > usually goes "Darwinism is survival of the fittest
    > and the fittest are
    > defined as those who survive." This seeming paradox
    > is resolved by adding
    > the dimension of time. Darwinian evolution looks at
    > how the future is
    > influenced by the varying success of present-day
    > replicators.
    >
    > One example of a memetic prediction would be that
    > evangelistic religions
    > will continue to spread more rapidly than those that
    > don't evangelize and
    > reach a higher saturation point.
    >
    > Richard Brodie
    > www.memecentral.com
    >
    >
    >
    ===============================================================
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    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

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    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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