RE: memes and determinism

From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Mon 06 Oct 2003 - 15:04:55 GMT

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    Greetings, Vincent,

    We treat memes, if I understand your terms, as both determined by and determining of socio-cultural processes. That is, the linguistic/symbolic form of memes evolves out of socio-cultural activity, and in turn memes can modify eventual socio-cultural activity. That this doesn't set up positive feedback loops that lock society into unyielding and unchanging patterns is very interesting and, I concluded, has several reasons, including those of the initial contrarian variety of the memes and socio-cultural patterns, and the inherent polarities within the socio-cultural environment.

    Your course sounds fascinating. I wish I could be there to audit.

    Cheers, Lawry

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
    > Of Vincent Campbell
    > Sent: Mon, October 06, 2003 9:21 AM
    > To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
    > Subject: memes and determinism
    >
    >
    > Hi everyone,
    >
    > A quick question, conceived whilst reading over some set reading for a
    > lecture I'm doing today on media technology and society, looking
    > at theories
    > of technological determinism and cultural materialism.
    >
    > My question is: are memes determined or determining? Or to put it another
    > way, are memes causes or effects (of socio-cultural processes)?
    >
    > I think this could be very important for the reaction to and
    > interpretation
    > of memes.
    >
    > For example, if memes are effects of socio-cultural processes, then you
    > could (hypothetically) take away the roman occupation of palestine, or the
    > treaty of versailles from post-WWI Germany, and perhaps christianity and
    > nazism never rise? (in both cases the context of societies
    > unified in their
    > feelings of oppression, unfairness caused by "others" etc. contributed to
    > their success as ideologies)
    >
    > Just throwing it out there, in the hope that someone out there
    > might like to
    > discuss memes.
    >
    >
    > Vincent
    >
    >
    > (Incidentally, I may not get a chance to follow up responses
    > until later in
    > the week or next week as I've got a lot of teaching over the next
    > few days,
    > but I will respond to anyone who feels like chipping in eventually.)
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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