From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue 01 Jul 2003 - 03:01:09 GMT
Date sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:47:24 -0400
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Encoding:- (was Re: Cultural Imperialism as
Idea & Meme)
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> At 03:18 PM 30/06/03 -0500, joe wrote:
>
> chomp
>
> >A person could go to a library to write and be writing a scientific
> >treatise, a suicide note, a love letter, or a pornographic poem, just
> >as the same person could do on a sunlit grassy hillside. WHAT is
> >being written, the MESSAGE that is being ENCODED, is the meme. Once
> >one learns how to speak or write, and memorizes a sufficient
> >vocabulary, an indefinite number of memes may be communicated via the
> >common code. Memetics is an irreduceably SEMANTIC enterprize,
> >inextricably intertwined with signification. Memes have individual
> >communicable MEANINGS; otherwise they could not compete with one
> >another for replication in a cognitive environment, for they would be
> >indistinguishable.
>
> I mostly agree with you. You are making the point that it is the
> information that comprises the meme. I also fully agree with you
> about meaning being important in meme survival and propagation. But a
> meme does not *have* to be expressed in words, though generally it can
> be.
>
> As an example, consider a song with no words. Or skills which may not
> be described in words such as making clay pots, or shoes or chipped
> rocks.
>
> Keith Henson
>
> PS. I would not make too big a deal out of arguing here. Most of the
> large number of web sites are rather close to your expression of what
> is a meme. The noise is mostly because people get off on the
> attention of having someone respond to their silly postings.
>
I agree that some memes are amenable to demonstration rather than
(or as well as) elucidation, but there is still an emotional response
component to tone sequences which can evoke joy or sadness or any
number of emotions in the listener (a kind of musical language), and
tunes can be transcribed in musical lotation, as can a description of
handaxe-knapping or pot-throwing or cobbling, although the
demonstration allows for a starting-point, after which questions may be
asked and answered (although some of our ancient ancestors were
nonspeakers and still tool-makers).
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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