From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Mon 30 Jun 2003 - 20:05:55 GMT
From: "Van oost Kenneth"
<kennethvanoost@belgacom.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Precision of replication
Date sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:50:39 +0200
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > My original point stands, however, that it the decision to act is a
> > cognitive and internal process, not an environmental and external
> > one (although the decision to act is often, though not always,
> > prompted by and in response to the reception of external stimuli).
>
> < Yes it does and I 'm glad you acknowledge the fact that the envi-
> ronment/ external stimuli is of great importance. But, if memes ARE
> acions, than writing one down would mean that ' the writing down of
> the meme ' IS the meme_ regardless of the context/ meaning of the
> stuff ! It is than what ( the writing) I see ( as the observer) that
> is the meme ( for me). And yes, that is meaningless_ without the '
> knowing ' of what the guy is doing I wouldn 't comprehend that it is
> actual writing stuff down ! So, I need cognitive and internal
> processes on which I can rely to understand.
>
> Can 't thus Wade's scheme not be a 2 way mechanism- in which
> 2 lines of communication are working simultaneously !?
> One line working onto the level of species- selection ( the writing
> down of any meme) itself is the meme. Thus the meme IS the action_ and
> that the other line is working on a more individualisticly bases (
> meaning/ context related).
>
> If the evolution of writing ( or even language) is an aspect of with
> species- bounded selection, than the evolution itself of the pheno-
> mena needs the faster lane of the individualisticly selection to
> progress. It is thus what can evolve very fast that will survive_ and
> so in order to survive, the action ( writing stuff down) must have a
> 1000 and more ways to be performed.
>
> Writing stuff down with a pencil would be ok for eons of time if there
> was enough wood and carbon avaible to sustain the commands. The
> writing itself would diseappear if noone could supply anymore_ and if
> there wasn 't another tool to pen down the words.
>
> So, no Wade's scheme don 't falls down as long we go for a 2 way
> system. That is not to say that the above is right, it is just a
> suggestion to rewind your opposition. Moreover, as it is memetics we
> 're talking about and not genetics, anew ideas and angles of incidence
> are needed to understand what is going on. For the memeisthemotion-
> model we need far more new ideas and angles to make it work. Critizing
> one model with the characteristics of another is actual no good at
> all. I understand that is for now the only way we got and maybe the
> only way there will ever be.........
>
> But anyway, what do you think !?
>
I think that the view of memetics that understands that memes are
internally cognitively encoded, but may be translated into other
externalizeable (transmissable/receiveable, communicable) encoding
forms, already includes both the within and the between, and there is
no need to distort such a system to make it appear as if it is not one-
sided, because, unlike the memeisthemotion 'model', it is NOT one-
sided. Thus the mental gymnastics in which one must indulge to futilely
attempt to make the memeinthemotion model jive with ubiquitously
observeable data are not necessary with cognitive memetics, for it has
no such problems.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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