From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed 25 Jun 2003 - 20:53:22 GMT
From: "Van oost Kenneth"
<kennethvanoost@belgacom.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Encoding:- (was Re: Cultural Imperialism as Idea
& Meme)
Date sent: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:09:15 +0200
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > Then whyu do vastly differing performances communicate the
> > instructions for the recipient to engage in nearly identical
> > performances, while performances that differ by a single syllable or
> > gesture can provoke widely different performances in the recipients?
>
> <That is because venue parameters are set in such a way that perfor-
> mances ( must) keep on going, thus to maintain the venue itself. There
> are 1000 ways that force you to remerber your birthday, but only one
> will be the trigger. The venue has a 1000 ways to elicit expected
> performances which IMO are not important. What is, is what is getting
> performed at the end of the trip. There are 1000 ways to drive a car,
> but that ain 't important to the specific venue, the driving itself
> IS. There are other venues to elicit performances of how you drive
> your car, or in what way ( where, when and how) did you learn it,....
>
> <The other side can be cleared by the following, sending ( post)-
> cards, a performance that differs by gesture/ context, can indeed
> provoke widely different performances in the recipients. Think of you
> sending cards for birthdays, for an announcement of a birth, you
> showing sympathy by the death of..., New Year, Easter, ect... The
> recipient will perform accordingly, happy, with gladness, hopefull for
> the future, sending you one back, throwing it in the dustbin,... It is
> what, when and how that is important, context related....
>
> <You ask ' WHY ', all is a matter of the venue eliciting ex-
> pected performances...
>
> Joe,
> Because the performances ENCODE memes, and tiny encoding
> changes can make great semantic differences, while the selfsame
> semantics may be encoded in multiple ways.
>
> <Yes, tiny encoding changes can make great semantic differences,
> but is that important for the venue !? If it happens, IMO that is just
> one more possible way added by the already existing 1000 of
> remerbering your birthday ! If I do send a card, lets say to the girl
> nextdoor, something I never did in the past, instead of wishing her
> joy for the day just by speaking the words out loud, wouldn 't that
> provoke a great semantic differen- ce in her mind !? What would she
> think, that I am in love with her, or just making a pass,.... !? But
> is this of importance to the venue eliticing expected performances for
> remerbering birthdays !? IMO, it doesn 't ! The remerberance itself
> IS important !! Next time around she will ' remerber '.....
>
> <Is the encoding of the memes within the performance of any
> importance, probably it is, but like I said, is this of any importance
> to the specific venue eliciting the performances !? IMO, it doesn 't !
> Does the changed encoding of the memes has any percussion on how and
> why we behave in the way we do, probably, but do we know !? Are we
> conscient aware of those tiny changes, and if we are not and we are
> confronted with the great semantic diffe- rences do we go out there in
> search for their causes !? Probably not ! Memetic evolution is so '
> fast ' that we ain't see its passing....all is the same but quite
> different.....
>
> <And yes, the selfsame semantics may be encoded in multiple ways,
> those are just the individualisticly, personal meme that serves the
> mind to remerber your birthday when your ' trigger ' passes by...
> Everybody remerbers his/ hers birthday ( selfsame semantic) but the
> remerberance itself is encoded in a 1000 ways.
>
> > It is this inconvenient yet undeniable rock
> > upon which your 'memeisthemotion' pseudomodel crashes, founders and
> > sinks, and you cannot answer or remove it.
>
> I don 't speak for Wade but is this not a little bit premature !? And
> to what extend has this bird crashed..........!?
>
> Regards though,
>
You completely miss my point. If memes ARE the actions, instead of
being ENCODED by them, then small action changes should reflect into
small memetic changes, and large action changes should translate into
large memetic changes. But this is manifestly NOT the case. Speaking,
writing, signing and showing, although they are widely divergent
performances, can communicate the selfsame meme, while the change
of a single gesture, letter, or phoneme can completely alter, and even
reverse, the communicated meme. This being the actual case, this
reality itself gives continuous and perpetual lie to the proposed
memeisthemotion model.
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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