Re: venue

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Thu 05 Jun 2003 - 18:26:37 GMT

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    Date sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:00:45 -0400 Subject: Re: venue From: "Wade T. Smith" <wade.t.smith@verizon.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk

    >
    > On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 06:53 AM, Joe wrote:
    >
    > > All these things are cognitively held templates, and as such, are
    > > internal, not external.
    >
    > This is where you are mostly wrong- these things are decidedly
    > external, and maintained externally. They are environmental to
    > cultural evolution. There is no memory of any of these things without
    > the external connections.
    >
    I can remember, for example, the Pythagorean Law or the Peter Principle without external prompting, and it would be difficult for me to demonstrationally perform either, especially the second (although I can linguistically describe both).
    >
    > Here is your excellent list again-
    >
    > "widely distributed laws, rules, maxims, slogans, parables, fables,
    > analogues, metaphors, similes, hermeneutics, paradigms, theories,
    > formulas, parameters, schematics, blueprints, designs, definitions,
    > heuristics, theorems, and other more or less formal holistic
    > representations/characterizations or analytic rules of thumb"
    >
    > - and without the necessary recording languages and mechanisms, above
    > listed, of culture, any one of them would become meaningless, and we
    > know this to be true.
    >
    Without the internalization of a descriptinve language, these items could not be cognitively held. They require a prior internalization
    (language or mathematics or logical form, etc,) in order to themselves be internalized. As long as there is no prior internalization (it remains external to the individual), none of these items can be known by that individual.
    >
    > What is internal in the performance model of cultural evolution is the
    > working of the human brain. Not the memetic facts of a culture, but a
    > facet of two (at least) of the players in its game. The facts
    > themselves can only come in performance, and it is these facts that
    > this, particular, model, calls memes.
    >
    All the items on my list are cognitively held, or, if they are not, are not held (or followed) at all. language itself, although used between, is held within.
    (between uses) ;~)
    >
    > - Wade
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

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