From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Mon 02 Jun 2003 - 19:51:30 GMT
From: "Van oost Kenneth"
<kennethvanoost@belgacom.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: eureka/ birthday
Date sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:22:04 +0200
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > Venues are external, and one's birthday can be remembered in
> > countless different ones. If you are thinking of 'cultural venue'
> > as what one has inside oone's head, that is cognitive and internal.
>
> That was not what I had in mind !
> Venues are indeed external but than only the ones that we consider to
> be cultural/ social/ political/.... Remerber what Wade said , that the
> cultural venue not only retains the expectations of the performances,
> but as well as the memories of both the performer and the observer.
> Thus that the internal and the extenal are necessary, including thus
> the cognitive and thus the internal.
>
External venues retain recognizeable traces of human activity insofar
as such activity has altered the venues' physical form, but they do not
store information in the sense that brains and books do.
>
> The cultural venue includes the physical environment wherein the mind/
> the cognitive is due part. The cognitive is one of the parameters set
> out by the cultural venue_ it allows the performance to be performed.
> Moreover it allows the performance to be stored and selected for. At
> the moment itself you think, or at the moment itself you think you
> begin to think, begin to consider any assumption ' memes ' are being
> made in the process, not before and not after.
>
No, the internal cannot be externalized by claiming that it is a part of the
external. And memes are indeed cognitively stored both prior to and
subsequent to their being accessed, or they could not be accessed, and
certainly not accessed multiple times in different surroundings.
>
> But the fact is there that indeed all the time memes are being made,
> that is what we have inside our heads after all, but the ' meme ' is
> NOT and I do repeat is NOT what is really inside but the ' meme ' is
> that part of the cognitive process that holds information, thus the
> thinking itself becomes the meme, because you ' perform ' something at
> that very moment. And yes, this is a meme because there has been '
> interaction ' be- tween performer ( thinker ), the venue ( the part of
> anything where he was thinking about) and there has been an observer (
> the thinker again, but now understanding the info he received).
>
The meme is the transmissable thought; its transmission may be
encoded in various performative actions, including demonstration,
doscourse and text.
>
> When you speak to someone, the information you tranfer is NOT
> the meme, but the speaking is, you perform in moving your lips,
> you make gestures. What the meme is for the observer that can 't
> be known to you, all depends on context and venue and space/
> time and the psysical environment of where his mind is in for that
> moment. If he laughs or cries or answers your calls, a meme has been
> per- formed_ there has been ' interaction ' as Wade calls it.
>
But when the meme tells one to be at Fourth and Main at 3:00 pm, one
does not replicate it be repeating the instructions, but, indeed by Being
at Fourth and Main at 3: oo pm, an action that does not in the least
resemble the moving of the lips when the instruction was imparted to
one.
>
> And the fact that you can remerber your birthday in a countless
> different venues can be explained as follows, when it came im-
> portant to remerber them in the first place, like Wade says, the
> remerberance tuned the cultural venue its parameters to set up
> more venue- ways to do so, thus to produce more similar repli-
> catable performances.
>
A cultural venue, then, can be being asked for one's birthday. It can
also be nothing that externally registers; we may just happen to think of
our birthday (say, because it's a few weeks away).
>
> If the first remerberance was just a date on a paper for purposes of
> recognition of identity, it became later a part of the cultural venue,
> being part of the social intercourse_ a collection of memes was
> selected for to enhance the survival of a certain group_ family,
> friends and close relatives all are do part of that group.
>
> Performances, in order to remerber your birthday, are induced
> by the venue of which all members are part and you, being part
> of the same venue, will as your birthday comes along " expect "
> receiving cards and phonecalls.
> You being part of the cultural/ social venue of which your family,
> friends and close relatives are all part, do expect that certain
> performances will happen, but not only those_ you expect that the
> neural and motor activity in those who will send the cards and will
> make the calls are equal " happy " as you will be.
>
> So, in a sense there is " nothing " in my head as being ' memes ' as
> such, all is induced by a certain venue which within its own
> parameters creates performances to be performed and creates
> performances to be expected.
>
Those who do not receive such solicitousness from caring others
remember their birthdays nevertheless.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon 02 Jun 2003 - 19:55:54 GMT