From: Richard Brodie (richard@brodietech.com)
Date: Wed 14 May 2003 - 23:36:54 GMT
Bill Benzon wrote:
<<The
"dog" idea-in-the-head meme IS NOT being transmitted through the phone line.
All that's transmitted is a sonic wave-form. If meaning were transmitted
then the fact that Jill doesn't speak English shouldn't make any difference.
She'd know what Jack was talking about as soon as she heard the sound.>>
For that matter, a sonic waveform isn't being transmitted either. It depends
upon the presence of a loudspeaker at the other end. And yet I have a
picture of a dog in my head right now without a single telephone or waveform
involved! What a paradox!
<<Sometime relatively early in life the infant sees
dogs while mommy or daddy or big sis or big bro says "dog." When this goes
on long enough the infant learns that there is an association between the
sound /dog/ and the animal. But that association is constructed in the
infant's brain BY THE INFANT HERSELF. No one's doing it for her. No
meaning is ever TRANSMITTED from anyone else to the infant. All that EVER
happens is that words are uttered in contexts from which the infant makes
inferences. And so it goes for word upon word upon word.>>
If the parents said "giraffe" instead of "dog" each time (do you have a
picture of a giraffe in your head?), would the infant still create an
association with "dog"? No. The parents are transmitting the "dog" label by
using their natural propensity (or perhaps conscious intention) to teach AND
the natural ability of the child to learn.
<<You're right. It's a technicality. But it's a technicality that FOREVER
separates mentalist memetics from science. If you just want to talk
informally about culture then, sure, by all means talk about
memes-in-the-head. But if you want to do science, then you can't talk that
way. And if that means that St. Richard Dawkins is talking nonsense, along
with St. Daniel Dennett, then so be it. They're talking nonsense.>>
Please say more about what the technicality is, because I don't understand
your argument!
Richard Brodie
www.memecentral.com
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