Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA08267 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:50:52 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458B0@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Jabbering ! Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:48:49 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I have a feeling it's been inspired by all those epic history books that
have been hitting the bestseller lists, like Norman Davies' book on Europe,
Felipe Arnesto(?)'s 'Millenium', and Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs, and
Steel'.
This series does have its own book, with the same title 'The Day The World
Took Off', but I've no idea if it'll be available in the States- perhaps
through Amazon.co.uk.
> ----------
> From: Chuck
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2000 2:20 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Jabbering !
>
> It's beginning to sound like a book that some people told me about last
> weekend
> - made the US bestseller list. Gave me some inspiration to pitch my book
> in
> another way. If you can, please find out if it is based on that book.
>
> Vincent Campbell wrote:
>
> > Patience Chuck!
> >
> > The series is structured around 6 programmes, each going further back in
> > time from a start point of The Rocket's maiden journey in 1830. The
> second
> > programme, just screened, went 100 years back, the next goes 250 years
> back
> > where colonialism and global navigation will be discussed (and more
> > particularly why the British came to dominate at that time), as so on
> back
> > (if I remember rightly) to some 10000 years or so and the start of
> agrarian
> > societies.
> >
> > I guess the series may surface on the Discovery channel at some point
> for
> > non-British contributors to the list.
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Chuck
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2000 12:25 pm
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: Jabbering !
> > >
> > > To find out why English social clubs differed at that point, you have
> to
> > > go
> > > further back in english history. But two of the distinctive parts of
> > > English
> > > history are its island status and its racial diveresity (as opposed to
> > > Japan).
> > > Again, however, exploitation of resources played a big role. Take, for
> > > example,
> > > how english colonialism and its increased access to resources changed
> the
> > > nature
> > > of english society!! And colonialism itself was probably pushed by
> > > shortages in
> > > the home country.
> > >
> > > Vincent Campbell wrote:
> > >
> > > > I saw the programme.
> > > >
> > > > I was particularly interested in two things, first the comment about
> the
> > > > British midlands being called the Black country, and rituals and
> dress
> > > sense
> > > > becoming heavily imbued with black in the late 18th and 19th
> century,
> > > > because of the dark satanic mills, and the mass use of coke.
> > > >
> > > > Second, the theory that what made Britain different from say France
> and
> > > > Germany in terms of the Industrial Revolution occuring in the UK
> rather
> > > than
> > > > elsewhere was the social structure of English social clubs.
> > > >
> > > > Again the utility things comes down to differences between
> > > material/manifest
> > > > uses which tend to be more fixed (although like your knife as a
> > > screwdriver
> > > > or vice versa, shows they're never totally fixed), and
> ideational/latent
> > > > uses (such as indicators of status etc.) which are highly varied.
> > > >
> > > > Vincent
> > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > From: Robin Faichney
> > > > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2000 10:09 am
> > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Subject: RE: Jabbering !
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 05 Jun 2000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> > > > > >Ask people what a tie is for though- what's its functionality?
> What
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > >bit of material under your shirt collar supposed to do? I don't
> > > think
> > > > > most
> > > > > >people would know, and would instead ascribe far more less
> manifest
> > > > > >(although no less important) functions like those you mention.
> The
> > > > > problem
> > > > > >then becomes one of arbitrariness- why does a strange bit of
> cloth
> > > around
> > > > > >one's neck offer all these other (social) functions that they
> indeed
> > > do?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Perhaps this is the distinctive element of cultural, as oppsed to
> say
> > > > > >technological, artefacts, in that their (apparent) utility is
> highly
> > > > > >flexible hence behaviours survive long after their origins have
> been
> > > > > >forgotten.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tools can be extremely flexible. Just ask anyone who ever used a
> > > knife as
> > > > > a screwdriver! Though there's obviously a distinction to be drawn
> > > between
> > > > > practical and social/psychological utility. But the main point I
> want
> > > to
> > > > > make is that, on any broad definition of culture, i.e. not just
> fine
> > > art,
> > > > > technology is part of it. That's what the "industrial evolution"
> > > thing is
> > > > > about, isn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Talking of which, the second instalment of the show we both saw
> last
> > > week
> > > > > was on last night, don't know if you caught it, but again, I don't
> > > think
> > > > > there was one reference to natural resource depletion. Plenty to
> > > economic
> > > > > motivation, though! And contrasts with social conditions in
> > > continental
> > > > > Europe, where innovations tended to be viewed as toys for the
> rich,
> > > rather
> > > > > than commodities and income generators for the middle class.
> England
> > > > > really was a nation of shopkeepers!
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Robin Faichney
> > > > >
> > > > > ==============================================================This
> was
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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