Re: memetics-digest V1 #1294

From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu 27 Feb 2003 - 03:12:33 GMT

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    >From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@rogers.com>
    >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #1294
    >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:16:38 -0500
    >
    >At 10:43 PM 25/02/03 -0500, you wrote:
    >
    >>>From: "Wade T. Smith" <wade.t.smith@verizon.net>
    >>>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >>>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >>>Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #1294
    >>>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:13:00 -0500
    >>>
    >>>On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 08:03 AM, memetics-digest wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Do you have any doubt that one of the things humans do is copy
    >>>>information?
    >>>
    >>>Yes.
    >
    >snip
    >
    >>Wade pretty much demolishes the internalist stance with his wrecking ball.
    >
    >He does not seem to think there are elements of culture. I could put in
    >examples of someone teaching a group of kids who had never been exposed to
    >cricket or baseball, but what's the point?
    >
    I don't know that it's elements of culture that Wade oposes, but merely an internalist stance. He'd probably be happy with an externalist sort of cultural element, given my memory of his posting history on the topic.
    >
    >>How well would the externalist stance stand?
    >
    >No idea of what you are proposing here.
    >
    >
    Given my memory of Wade's previous externalism (IIRC his "bemes" versus Joe's internalist "meme-ories" versus my curmudgeony "pink unicorns" from a while back), I would say he dismises the internalism of mnemons or engrammatic "memes" in favor of some behavioral (hence "bemes") or perhaps artifactual focus for cultural elements. I'd still be hesistant that this sort of memetics would stand, hence my reversion to "pink unicorns"
    (imaginary but quite beautiful nonetheless).

    I thought with the history of the internalist-externalist split (something along the lines of Lynch and Gatherer and what someone had coined as L-memes
    (mnemons) and G-memes (artifacts)) this positional distiction would be obvious.

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