Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed 19 Feb 2003 - 09:49:18 GMT

  • Next message: derek gatherer: "Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London"

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >From: joedees@bellsouth.net
    > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >Subject: Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London
    > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:46:07 -0600
    > >
    > > > on 2/17/03 8:25 PM, joedees@bellsouth.net at joedees@bellsouth.net
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > [snip]
    > > >
    > > > >>
    > > > >> More empty boilerplate. You need to say why people prefer some
    > > > >> memes over others. To simply say that some memes spread
    > > > >> further because they're "better at getting into new human
    > > > >> minds" doesn't say anything very helpful. That's as useful as
    > > > >> saying that water runs down hill because it prefers being at
    > > > >> the bottom of hills.
    > > > >>
    > > > > Actually, umm, no. Water is not a conscious agent as people
    > > > > are; it cannot prefer like people can.
    > > >
    > > > But you memeticists don't talk about people as agents. You're
    > > > always talking about memes as agents. In memetics human
    > > > minds/brains are just passive respositories of meme-food.
    > > >
    > >Not Grant, not me, and not many others. Memes are no more
    > >conscious or self-consciously aware than genes are, but people are.
    > >We choose which memes to accept and which to reject based upon a
    > >number of factors, including our personality dispositions and ourr
    > >personal histories, but many of our choices are made after due
    > >reflection and consideration, and a further search for information.
    > >
    > Poppycock. What about the "meme's eye view"? I thought (oops a meme in
    > my head caused me to think) that it's not us having memes, but that
    > it's all about the memes having us. Conscious "choice", volition, or
    > "free will" is nothing more than a castle in the sky, a meme that has
    > captured us in its net and caused us to "think" (whatver that empty
    > word means) that we have "control".
    >
    The 'meme's eye view' is as much of a fiction as the 'gene's eye view', the 'God's eye view' and the 'stone's eye view'.
    >
    > "I" am not "me". "I" am an automaton driven by a collection of mental
    > contagions, deluded that "I've" a "self" there. That's what the memes
    > want me to "think" ;)
    >
    If you think that memes WANT ANYTHING, much less for you to think a certain thing, even the information they contain, then you have a homuncular misunderstanding of memetics. But I doubt that you think that. I think you were being sarcasticly humorous, and if so, you did a reasonable job of lampooning the misunderstandings of some in the field.
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________ MSN
    > 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
    > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed 19 Feb 2003 - 12:36:30 GMT