From: Van oost Kenneth (kennethvanoost@belgacom.net)
Date: Tue 03 Dec 2002 - 20:43:38 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van oost Kenneth" <kennethvanoost@belgacom.net>
To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Why Europe is so Contrary
> Kenneth,
> > > Here I hear thru ' what I dislike most, the voice of thinking in
> > > superior levels ! Those tendencies are part of my culture, of my
> > > history, of my being and for one I am proud of them ! Yes, I am ! Let
> > > me explain, before one says again I talk crap, In Europe we have a
> > > Spanish solution, a German proposition, a French opposition to one
> > > others its proposal_ all of which are biased within the country its
> > > own psychological, social, cultural,... tradition, all of which with
> > > their own specific traits, tricks and habits. It makes us what we are!
> Joe,
> > It also means that Europe is too busy occupied with internecine
> > disagreements to be able to cooperate in the face of common threats
> > and dangers (and thus has depended upon the US to deal with them for
> > it). A system cannot protect and preserve its people or their way of
life
> > if it is impotent to guard them against either external or internal
> > hazards. We saw all too fully the german 'Final Solution' imposed upon
> > the rest of Europe, and with Italy's help.
>
> I am personal all for a strong Europe, if not in words than in deeds and
in
> respect the unification of Europe along its economical axes is maybe a
good
> thing but it doesn 't bring the peoples all together. Cultural and all we
> are to damned different to live as one single nation.
> As for the German bit, the rest of Europe made a mess about the legacy
> of WWI, in a sense Germany had no other option than to go to war again,
> but that is all history.
>
> I am not that concerned about the ways Europe settles its conflicts, I am
> more concerned about the fact that Americans had a view that is IMO what
> blurded. After 9/ 11 it struck me to see that for instance CNN always blew
> high of the US tower, but never went deeper. It was a show, a scam !
> Now, Bush allowed, under pressure no doubt, that a committy will inves-
> tigate the role of its own policy and the role of the CIA.
> Hannad Arendt called this ' redraw of information ' and that is what
happe-
> ned over the last decades in the US, specific about the US foreign policy.
> In such ways there is a " conscience- narrowing ", it becomes them against
> us, because the role of the " we " is never shown to the public_ it
becomes
> a Cold War.
>
> Why should the US, like Kaplan wrote, like Roosevelt intented, even still
> border to ' protect ' Europe if there isn 't any gain in such an attempt
!?
> Europe, seen from US eyes was just there as a buffer to the Sovjet Union_
> in a way of being an economical outlet for its products.
> IIRC, the US came in WWI just out of economical reasons, the German
> U- boats sank to much of its ships, conveying towards Europe with food
> and weapons. There is much to say about the political truth.....
> And why did the US order to set foot in Normandia, the US was attacked
> by Japan at Pearl Harbor, there was no given reason to go that far as
Flan-
> ders and the Rhine, if not " self- interest "....
>
> Joe,
> > Actually, when a state has an idea that is passed into law via
legislation
> > or public referendum and it is both good and works, the other states sit
> > up and take notice and movements begin in them to do the same, and
> > the federal government more often than not follows. This is a strength
> > of the US system; individual states are laboratories for ideas. I see
> this
> > happening to a certain degree in your new EU, also. But the US has
> > had the advantage of a common language and history (although the
> > former is weakening herewith the influx of many Spanish speakers), just
> > as it is strengthening in Europe with the increasing ubiquity of the
> > English language there.
>
> That is a kind of mistery to me though, how will the US (re)act upon that
> fact !? I understand that now already 60 % of Florida is of Spanish-
> speaking origin, how will this reflect in political power !? How is this
> translated
> in economical power !? Does they have the same rights !? How high are the
> criminal figures !? Comparable to those of the Black community !?
> I forsee there a great deal of trouble arising in your mids, if the US
> government won 't deal with that a kind of situation. Or is that one/ the
> reason
> why the US intervenes so happily abroad, to elude its people from what is
> really
> happening internal !? After all, a good president is often seen as one who
> has a strong foreign policy.... strange !!
>
> France is a country to watch with some
> > trepidation, though; not since Moorish Spain has a country contained
> > such a substantial Muslim minority, and it has only been the degree of
> > Francophile chauvinism there that has kept them on course (for
> > instance, their laws against Muslim militants are stricter than, for
> > instance, Britain's).
>
> Hm, another explanation can be given though !
> France has as many Muslims in is mids than Britain has Hindus, those
> are two complete different peoples. The Muslim minority is shacked up
> in ' les faubourgs ', Sovjet style appartment blocks, no green, no
perspec-
> tives, no future_ they are the decendents of people expelled from Algeria,
> no real French citizens, not really Algerians either...a stricter
> enforcement
> is needed to control ciminality and abuse... comparable to what I wrote
> above about Florida and the Black community...
> On the other hand, Hindus from India and Pakistan had, in most cases,
> family, relatives and friends who made the trip to England ealier on.
> Both cases are IMO not comparable at all...
> Like in Germany, where an estimated 4 million Turks live. Those are
> like the Hindus in England, the ' problem- people ' so to speak are the
> Easies...
>
> Kenneth,
> > > The Marroccans you talked about make up 60 % of the population
> > > in that kind of neighbourhood where the riots began.
> > > I understand their frustration, no work, no money and eons of time on
> > > their hands, no future, no real perspective and than one gets shot by
> > > a psychogical nutcase. They see it, and the Maroccans are keen on
> > > that, as a racistic attack and induced by the words of AEL they went
> > > to the streets. But they are Muslims and very radical indeed, the
> > > words pronounced in the mosque don 't leave any doubt, but on the
> > > horizon there were also words of reconciliation, dialogue and
> > > friendship. I base my verdict on those.
> Joe,
> > It self-servingly plays into the Rasical Islamists' hands for them to
> > portray that murder as racist, when it seems to have been the work of a
> > looney involved in a neighborhood dispute. They desire the double
> > standard right to kill anyone they proclaim as having slandered Islam,
> > while promising bloody and self-righteous riots if any one else should
> > dare to do the same to one of their Ummah, whether the motivation is
> > religious, ethnic, or neither. In other words, y'all have a real
problem
> on
> > your hands.
>
> Hm, not with the Turks, Algerians and others, but solely with the
> Marroccans!
> Not only in Antwerp but also in Brussels and elsewhere those are the most
> violent bunch of immigrants we have.
> I said this before on this list, those are comparable to what happened to
> the
> Algerians in France with the difference the Marroccans came here out of
> economical reasons but never found there ways, like the Italians did in
our
> mines for instance.
>
> There is also a kind of obscure mentality hidden in the Marroccan, a kind
> of backlach, a defense mechanism as it were, of saying that any ' attack '
> is out of racistic reasons_ when a young guy of 18 is shot death by the
> police while trying to escape a control, driving in a stolen car with a
> weapon on his knees_ if than this is a racistic attack, well I don 't
know,
> than there must be something wrong with their estimation of things, won 't
> it !?
> I tried to explain this once to someone involved in such problematic, but
> the thing that it could be genetic, memetic related made him run away....
>
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