From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue 03 Dec 2002 - 01:27:37 GMT
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> >From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: Ted
> >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:29:26 -0600
> >
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:26:13 -0800
> > > > From: Jon Gilbert <jjj@io.com>
> > > >
> > > > >Tsk, tsk, Joe. I can see that you haven't read any of my
> > > > >postings on the Israeli-Palestinian dispute during the last
> > > > >year plus....
> > > > >
> > > > >Anti-American? How little you understand! And how little you
> > > > >know!
> > > > >
> > > > >People on the list do tend to need to counter your diatribes by
> > > > >reminding (or trying to remind you) of the flip side to your
> > > > >arguments, so it is
> > > quite
> > > > >true that we end up presenting a litany of facts and concepts
> > > > >that try to correct the imbalance we perceive in your views.
> > > > >But we have never had a real discussion with you about the US
> > > > >and its foreign policy, Muslims, Arabs, Jews, Israel or
> > > > >Palestine, because instead of a real discussion,
> > > we
> > > > >get in to futile efforts to break through your prejudices and
> > > > >anger, as
> > > you
> > > > >do to pound your views into us.
> > > > >
> > > > >I am told that you have been kicked off another list (CoV), and
> > > > >warned on
> > > at
> > > > >least one other, not because of the substance of your views but
> > > > >because
> > > of
> > > > >the way you behave on the list. I do find that it makes true
> > > > >discussion quite difficult and wastes a huge amount of time of
> > > > >people who otherwise have a lot to offer each other and learn
> > > > >from each other.
> > > > >
> > > > >There are a lot of interesting things that we should be
> > > > >discussing, and
> > > we
> > > > >need to find a way to do it without your impeding the process.
> > > > >
> > > > >My hope, Joe, is that we can let this calm down, and that you
> > > > >can
> > > consider
> > > > >the effect you have on the list's interactions, and find some
> > > > >way to
> > > become
> > > > >more effective for both yourself and the rest of us on this
> > > > >list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hate to say this Larry but you seem to be the one that has the
> > > > problem here, not Joe, whose only issue seems to be that he has
> > > > too much time on his hands and thus posts an extraordinary
> > > > amount of stuff. It's not a crime to be opinionated or to argue
> > > > vehemently, which is what he seems to do. But I do take issue
> > > > with the fact that you only engage in ad hominem attacks and
> > > > avoid any direct engagement of the points he makes. All it does
> > > > is make you look bad, not him.
> > >
> > > How long have you been on this list, Jon? As I wrote last week,
> > > Lawrence is merely articulating what most of us who've been here
> > > awhile know perfectly well. Nothing ad hominem to it-- which is
> > > Joe's specialty-- just constructive criticism. Lawry's only error
> > > is to hope that Joe can reform in some way and become a
> > > responsible member of the list. Not gonna happen. Joe is the
> > > Darth Vader of the memetics list. The psychiatric term for his
> > > condition is antisocial personality disorder. Yes, there's a
> > > human being somewhere in there, and sometimes individuals with
> > > this condition do take off the helmet, so to speak, but it's very
> > > rare. Most sociopaths are stuck for life at the emotional
> > > maturity of a 6-year old, and Joe does not appear to be an
> > > exception. He's incapable of recognizing when he's wrong and
> > > often believes he's scored some kind of great rhetorical victory
> > > when all he's done is to repeat for the 50th time his unreflective
> > > views. It's a problem of the ego. "I'm right because I'm me."
> > > The reason he can't recognize Israel's slow-motion genocide
> > > against the Palestinian people is that he *identifies* with
> > > Israel. It's the pathological ego that makes people vulnerable to
> > > pathological memes, in this case the "Palestinians are evil
> > > terrorists" meme.
> > >
> > > As Lawrence wrote, Joe is an interesting case study. Indeed, he
> > > is highly useful to a memetics list. All pathological memes are
> > > functions of pathological egos, whether those egos exist at the
> > > level of the individual, as with Joe, or at the collective level,
> > > as with the United States or Israel.
> > >
> > > Many individuals diagnosable with a personality disorder exert a
> > > degree of "charm." The dark side certainly has an allure. It's
> > > always dangerous to expose a personality disorder, as people tend
> > > to side with the disturbed individual against those who would
> > > "attack" him. Unfortunately, you've demonstrated this tendency
> > > all too well.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> >Actually, and those who have been on this list for some time know
> >this quite well (in fact, considering how long it went on, much too
> >well), Ted has an undying grudge against me because I, along with
> >some other list members, notable Wade Smith and Scott Chase, blunted
> >his blindly memebotic attempt to inflict his own personal fantasy
> >infection of Sheldrakean morphic resonance on this list as some kind
> >of mystical gospel. This ad nauseum ad infinitum attempt, against
> >all logic, reason and evidence, perdured for more than a year, and
> >Ted is still nursing the wound that the rejection of his personal
> >mental infestation by the list at large inflicted upon him, and a
> >malevolent grudge against those whom he quite rightly sees as those
> >who blew off such nonsensical absurdities with rational and
> >irrefutable counterexamples and the exposure of his pet delusion's
> >irresolveable self-contradictions. He continues to hold this grudge
> >because he acolytically and emotionally invested his self-concept,
> >self-esteem, and sense of self-worth in the transcendent and
> >metaphysical truth of his fervent, zealous and fanatical belief in
> >his chosen article of faith and its guru, The Holy Sheldrake and His
> >Writ, and thus wrongly perceived the rejection of Sheldrake's
> >pseudoscientific claptrap as personally ego-threatening. For this
> >mortal sin, I will always be the Darth Vader in Ted's eyes; the Dark
> >Icon of Pure and Ultimate Evil that prevented the questing flock from
> >being indoctrinated in the True Dogma Of All Creation by the
> >Enlightened One who had received the Divine Epiphany of the Faith,
> >the Truth, and the Light. He must therefore forever Quixotically
> >tilt at my windmills, ignoring the Sancho Panza of logic and evidence
> >in the process, motivated by a simple and singleminded visceral
> >animus. Because of this fatuous and vapid yet fanatical fixation, Ted
> >indefatiguably engages in the psychological projection of ad hominem
> >attacking me by illegitimately accusing me of ad hominem against
> >others when I am discussing issues, not persons, by accusing me of
> >being the rabid memebot that he has amply and abundantly demonstrated
> >himself to be, and by generally projecting all of his many various
> >and sundry psychological pathologies upon me, the person he has
> >fixated upon as the agent of his personal destruction simply because
> >I, along with others, tirelessly and conclusively refuted a
> >quasireligious fantasy of his with which he has personally
> >identified.
> >
> Let it go, Joe. Neither you nor Ted will come out of this budding
> conflict looking good. This personal stuff doesn't belong here. And,
> unless you can mend your fences, don't take it to e-mail either,
> because that will solve nothing.
>
> Filter or ignore each other for a while or find common ground on
> something and stick with it.
>
> I'm probably akin to the Attilla the Hun of etiquette advice and the
> Genghis Khan of conflict resolution, but do try to get over it
> already.
>
OK; anyone who has been on the list long enough knows that I just
pinned Ted to the wall seven ways from Sunday, anyway.
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue 03 Dec 2002 - 01:29:56 GMT