From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Sat 23 Nov 2002 - 21:31:47 GMT
Joe is at it again...now focusing his diatribe on the Palestinians. The
Palestinians, you see, in Joe's world, abandoned their homes voluntarily.
They were really happy, Joe will tell us, to give their lands and homes and
political existence to the Israelis. There was of course no such thing as
the Dar Yassin massacres, in Joe's particular worldview. There was no such
thing as the refusal to allow the Palestinians to return to their country or
homes. In later emails, Joe will also probably tell us that the
Palestinians who did manage to remain in the territories taken by Israel
live as full citizens of Israel, and not as second-class citizens, whose
homes are subject to unilateral forfeiture whenever Israel wants them.
Really, when you get right down to it in Joe's worldview, the Palestinians
have no reason at all to be waging a war against Israel. They are, Joe will
tell us, just plain old anti-Jewish and tools of the world-wide
cannibalistic memetic Muslim something or other...
Now Joe will run off to his true-blue websites (the more anonymous or
bigoted or self-serving the better!) and conjure up another round of bit
extractions from reality, with which Joe populates his worldview.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of joedees@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 4:06 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Islam and Europe and Joe
>
>
> > At 12:40 PM 23/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
> > >> At 12:37 PM 22/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >Hi, Scott,
> > >> >By 'anti-Semitic' I mean bigoted against any or all Semitic races,
> > >> >including Arabs. Islam, being a religion, would not be included,
> > >> >though of course many Muslims are Arabs and vice versa. My
> > >> >experience of bigots is that their bigotry can swing around at
> > >> >anytime to attack anyone who is 'different,' so it should not
> > >> >bring much comfort to Jews - or anyone else - that Joe has so far
> > >> >focused his anti-Semitism on Arabs and Muslims.
> > >>
> > >> I think that we need to separate Zionism, (an aggressive political
> > >> position which supports the creation of the Greater Israeli State,
> > >> genocide and ethnic cleansing), Judaism (the religion) and Jews
> > >> (the Jewish people). The area of land claimed by Zion is that which
> > >> was 'given' to Abraham and his descendants by his God in a
> > >> 'vision'. I've always thought that it was fairly suspect land deal
> > >> (no witnesses). See Gen. 15: 18-21. Personally I don't mind Judaism
> > >> or Jews but I think that the US backed Zionist movement is the most
> > >> dangerous political force in the World today. <snip>
> > >>
> > >I must disagree with you, and so must most of the non-Muslim world.
> > >The most dangerous political force in the world today, wreaking havoc
> > > and terror across the globe from Bali to Kashmir to Jerusalem to New
> > > York, is undoubtedly the memeset of Radical Islam.
> > >>
> > Joe as I read it, even Osama was reacting against US/Israeli
> > persecution and expansionism.
> >
> Actually, what originally pissed him off was the Saudi family blowing off
> his offer for his four thousand (at the time) mujaheddin to defend Saudi
> Arabia in a jihad against Iraq before the start of the Gulf War twelve
> years ago, and instead bringing in the disgusting, hated, despised,
> Godless infidel unbeliever US to defend the holy Mecca and Medina,
> and sully the sacred soil of the Muslim Holy Sand.
> He used his other two points - the Palestinian situation and a later
> inverted sympathy for the very Iraq he offered to fight - as ways to sway
> gullible jihadist wannabees into making the commitment to join his terror
> army.
> >
> >I have not read anywhere that he was
> > attempting to convert the world to Islam - as you keep saying. The
> > requests from most of the Muslim world are as stated by Al Baz in the
> > piece that I sent you. If those four conditions were met the
> > Islamofasists, as you name them rightly, would have no more support
> > base than the KKK has in Christendom. The problem is the aggressive
> > Zionist expansionism.
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