RE: The terrorism meme

From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Fri 15 Nov 2002 - 20:52:37 GMT

  • Next message: Grant Callaghan: "Re: The terrorism meme"

    OK, so you call it mindless because you don't think 'they' can possibly really believe that bombing a disco is going to drive America out of Saudi. But then wouldn't driving the US out of Saudi Arabia (I assume you mean driving US troops out - because as far as I have seen that is the demand that Al-Qaida has made - not Americans generally) be a purpose, whether or not the tactic accomplishes it?

    Now, I would assume that the Bali bombing was designed for some other purpose, but have seen any primary materials on it, e.g. that would address the matter of the purpose of those who did that.

    Keep in mind that Al-Qaida may (and we know does) have more than one purpose, AND is a decentralized organization, allowing local cells lots of room to pursue purposes tailored to the local situation. Thus not all Al-Qaida-associated actions will have as their purpose the achievement of very single purpose enunciated by Al-Qaida. Middle Eastern Arabs have one set of purposes, while Indonesian terrorist have a different set. I think there is one overarching purpose, and that is what they have termed defense against an ever-encroaching west. Again, you and I don't have to agree that that purpose is a worthy one, or tactics pursued to achieve it reasonable; our discussion here is simply as to whether these terrorist are 'mindless' in their purposes or not.

    Turning to our domestic situation: would you say that McVeigh, or Kyzcinski were 'mindless'?

    The importance of this issue is real: if they are 'mindless' than there is little that the US can do to stop it. If they are 'mindful,' there may be a lot that we can do to end the terror.

    Cheers, Lawry

    -----Original Message----- From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Grant Callaghan Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:39 PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: The terrorism meme

    I call it mindless because I don't think they have any specific goal with their terrorist acts other than to cause terror. I don't think they know what purpose their acts are for. The only thing purposeful about them is the diligence with which they carry out their missions. And the people I'm talking about are the Al Quaeda and their associates. I can't believe that they think bombing a disco is Bali is going to drive America out of Saudi Arabia, for example -- or even out of Indonesia. If so, they are mindlessly stupid.

    Grant
    >
    >Purposes will depend on who you are talking about, as far as I can see.
    >There are many terrorist sources around the world: they have their
    >different
    >purposes.
    >
    >Have you read any of bin Laden's transcripts (at least, as publicly
    >available?). The latest one is available in today's NY Times. It will give
    >you a pretty good sense of his purpose.
    >
    >But I still pose the question: why do YOU call it 'mindless terrorism'? Is
    >it because you can't conceive of a possible purpose that those who engage
    >in
    >it might have? Or is calling it 'mindless' simply a counter-meme?
    >
    >Best regards,
    >Lawry
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
    >Grant Callaghan
    >Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:48 PM
    >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >Subject: RE: The terrorism meme
    >
    > >
    > >Grant, why do you call it 'mindless terror'? It seems quite purposeful
    >to
    > >me.
    > >
    >Lawry,
    >
    >OK. What is it's purpose?
    >
    >Grant
    >
    >Bin Laden's Lament
    >
    >America is
    >Destroying
    >Islam
    >
    >One frenchfry
    >at a time.
    >

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    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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