RE: The ISIS site

From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon 11 Nov 2002 - 03:45:00 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Chase: "RE: The ISIS site and Joe's other sources"

    >From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
    >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    >Subject: RE: The ISIS site
    >Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:19:43 -0500
    >
    >Well, I dare say that you have another Daniel Pipes in mind than the one I
    >do, and with whose writings I am quite familiar. Is 'pro-Zionism'
    >anti-semitic? Some advocates of Israel assert so, but I disagree. One can
    >be
    >critical of Zionism without being critical of Judaism, wouldn't you agree?
    >
    There are Judaic anti-Zionists. Neturei Karta stand out from the pack in this regard as ultra-Orthodox Judaism can decouple conceptually from Zionism.

    http://www.netureikarta.org

    One could be critical of Zionism and/or Israeli policy without being anti-Semitic. One could be highly critical of Jabotinsky's Revisionist Zionism yet less so of Ben-Gurion's Labor Zionism or the early kibbutzniks and their brand of socialism. There's distinctions to be made that "Zionism" doesn't quite capture.
    >
    >I don't know if you are aware that Ibn Warraq is an alias. Do you know who
    >the author really is? I would like to know, before blindly accepting the
    >credentials with which he has clothed himself. Would it not be prudent to
    >know, before taking his arguments on faith?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Lawry
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
    >joedees@bellsouth.net
    >Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:00 PM
    >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >Subject: RE: The ISIS site
    >
    > > A site, interestingly, not above quoting from that notorious
    > > anti-Islamic, pro-Zionist writer, Daniel Pipes!
    > >
    >Daniel Pipes is not anti-Islamic; he IS anti-Radical Militant Islam, as
    >anyone with a modicum of sense, even other Islamics, logically should
    >be.
    > >
    > > It makes me wonder who the real owner of the site is....
    > >
    >Disaffected Muslim secularists, in association with the Council for
    >Secular Humanism, publisher of Free Inquiry magazine (or are you
    >planting an antisemitic or anti-Israel insinuendo? Well, it ain't true.).
    >Ibn Warraq, author of the critically acclaimed WHY I AM NOT A
    >MUSLIM (the title being an homage to Bertrand Russell's WHY I AM
    >NOT A CHRISTIAN), as well as many other academic studies of Islam
    >and its historical roots, is one of the prime forces behind it.
    > >
    > > But to the point of secularism within Islam - yup, it is a live and
    > > vibrant movement within the Muslim world, and it parallels similar
    > > secularist movements in other areas of the world. Again, Karen
    > > Armstrong's book BATTLE FOR GOD, is excellent on the flip side,
    > > fundamentalism.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Lawry
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On
    > > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:08
    > > PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: The ISIS site
    > >
    > > The best way to investigate the site is to peruse the site map at:
    > > http://www.secularislam.org/sitemap.htm
    > >
    > > ===============================================================
    > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ===============================================================
    > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >===============================================================
    >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >
    >
    >===============================================================
    >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

    _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon 11 Nov 2002 - 03:48:27 GMT