From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Sun 10 Nov 2002 - 20:56:40 GMT
Greetings, Kenneth - I am flattered by the 'you, above all people' comment;
let's see if we can work our way through this...
My sense is that you feel:
1. That the US had an obligation to help Africa
2. That the US should not have helped Europe if it would not help Africa
3. That the US help for Europe proactively harmed Africa - not just through
neglecting it, but that in some active way Africa was harmed by the Marshall
Plan...
...or some combination of these understandings?
I would agree that the US did little or nothing for Africa, though if we
looked at the actual aid figures (which I have not done) we might be
surprised that the US was actually providing assistance from early after the
WWII. But is this not a free choice? Is there an obligation on the US to
help Africa? If you think the answer is affirmative, let's explore this
further. I h=am no expert of aid to Africa, but have the impression that
African societies have been profoundly unable to develop themselves,
regardless of the amount of aid being sunk there. Would more aid have
stopped the hutus and tutsis from massacring each other? The extraordinary
spread of AIDS (SIDA) in Africa? Is it the lack of US aid (or other's) that
prompts M'Beki to announce that HIV is not the cause of AIDS?
And to the US: remember that the US was massively in debt at the end of
WWII. The US was not looking for 'good things' to do around the world:
reconstructing Europe was viewed as essential to two things: 1) rebuilding
the international trade economy, and 2) rebuilding Europe politically so
that the chances of it serving as the place for yet another world war were
diminished. It was recognized by some that the punitive regime that the WWI
settlement had imposed on future generations of German's might have created
conditions for a resurgence of German nationalism. But the establishment of
the Un and the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of Japan was about all the
American people had economic and psychological capacity for. Remember that
after WWI, US President Wilson had not even been able to get the US to join
the League of Nations - his own creation! - so strong were the forces of
isolationism. The Marshall Plan and the UN seem to me to be extraordinary
accomplishments, and deserving of praise for what they did, and not
criticism for not doing everything that anyone might view as desirable.
On a larger matter: my sense is that a lot of people have given up on
Africa, and that this is a meme that has spread during the last 10-20 years.
Why? Is it a meme that reflects an on-the-ground reality? Should we be
challenging this meme?
I look forward to your thoughts on all this, Kenneth.
Cheers,
Lawry
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
Van oost Kenneth
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:47 PM
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Post-Saddam Iraq?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
> But to ignore one area does not mean that development of another is being
> done 'at the cost' of the first, no?
>
> If I choose to give a gift to John, does that mean that because I chose to
> not give one to Michael that it came at Michael's 'cost'?
Lawrence,
Yes it does ! I don 't know what present you have giving, but in the case
of Africa it meant years, moreover till today, learning programs, general
development, political balance, economical revival are retarted, than and
still are !
Like I said, I don 't recall the details but learning about this facts did
me
see what happened to the world during the last 50 years in a whole new
perspective.
It would beat me if you, above all people, would not recognize the nega-
tivity of such an enterprise !
Kenneth
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> Van oost Kenneth
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:04 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Post-Saddam Iraq?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com>
> Kenneth,
> > >"At the expense of Africa"? I am not following your logic.... What
> > >resources did Africa contribute to the rebuilding of Germany (and the
> rest
> > >of Europe?)?
>
> Like I said, IIRC the Marshall - plan was aimed for Europe.
> Europe was to re- built first with the possible economical help of the US,
> Africa was completely left out of the picture... deliberately !
> In one of the earlier threads I sended to this list, a year of so ago, I
did
> mention this, same subject, different context.
> For details, sorry, my mind is empty....
>
> Anyone !?
>
> Kenneth
>
>
>
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>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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