From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat 09 Nov 2002 - 22:42:52 GMT
>From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>, <fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk>
>Subject: RE: The terrorism meme
>Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:47:47 -0500
>
>Greetings, Joe,
>
>My last visit was pre-1991.
>
>My point is this: that you are expressing views that closely mirror that of
>the spin that is being put out by the DoD and White House and their
>associated contractors, and it shows little understanding of Iraq as it
>actually is. There are a lot of instant 'experts' on Iraq who learn enough
>to through some names around, and then launch into providing analysis and
>recommendations. A little like everyone becoming an expert on terrorism.
>People who have been studying terrorism for years - before it became the
>intellectual-fad-of-the-moment -- (e.g. G. Post, B. Hoffman) are far more
>thoughtful and cautious than the Bush cowboys. And the same is true of
>those
>who have studied the Middle East for years - they simply do not come close
>to the same thinking as Bush and his right-wing advisors. You speak with
>the certainty of someone who should have been studying the Middle East for
>many years, so I asked about any experience you might have with Iraq, or
>the
>Middle East, for that matter.
>
Yet at least Joe goes out on the limb and provides his views on what he
thinks should be a working policy. You talk down to him like he's riding
along with the Bush posse in the old west or some such. Where does Joe go
wrong and what would be the proper course of action regarding Iraq, given
your infinite depth?
>
>Goldberg has written many fine articles on the Middle East. He is getting
>over there a lot, and is developing better and better contacts, especially
>in Egypt. He has a bit of an 'agenda', as you may have noticed, but within
>that reality does a good job. The article you cite was not one of his best,
>overall, though it produced some great anecdotal information about the
>widespread horror inflicted by the Saddan regime on the Kurds. Not many
>people in the American or European public know about this, so it was a
>useful article. But Goldberg was also the first to admit that for this
>article he was being led around by people who had an interest in having a
>strong anti-Saddam story told. He tried to distinguish between reality and
>spin and did a creditable job, over all. Where he _probably_ errs is in
>his
>attempts to summarize the magnitude of the attacks, but he was not the
>first
>nor last to struggle with this.
>
>Cheers,
>Lawry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
>joedees@bellsouth.net
>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:23 PM
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk; fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: RE: The terrorism meme
>
> > LdB: >Joe, have you ever visited Iraq?
> > >
> > Scott: I haven't. Have you?
> > LdB: Yes, I have. But my question is to Joe.
> >
>No. How long ago was your visit?
>And what about Jeffrey Goldberg's?
>http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020325fa_FACT1
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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