From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat 09 Nov 2002 - 18:20:29 GMT
> >From: Jeremy Bradley <jeremyb@nor.com.au>
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: The terrorism meme
> >Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:21:15 +1100
> >
> >At 10:31 PM 8/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
> > >> Snip.........
> > >> >>When I say the means we use shape the ends we
> > >> >> get, that's what I mean. The means we used to fight Russia in
> > >> >> Afghanistan led to the Taliban taking control. It led to the
> > >> >> creation of Al Quaeda (the list of reliable agents who were
> > >> >> trained and proved their worth in Afghanistan) We are taking
> > >> >> the expedient route to solve a problem that is much deeper and
> > >> >> will last much longer than the means we are using will solve.
> > >>
> > >> Hi peace lovers
> > >> There is a great kid's song that carries a memetic warning of
> > >> this action - over-reaction tendency in some human cultures; it
> > >> is called 'There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly'. Do you
> > >> know it? On the surface it is a silly song, but the meme is solid
> > >> and stable. Each time she takes a more drastic remedy until she
> > >> dies - not of the complaint but the cures. (last chorus of long
> > >> song) She swallowed a horse to catch the cow She swallowed the
> > >> cow to chase the dog (what a hog, she swallowed a dog) She
> > >> swallowed the dog to catch the cat (imagine that, she swallowed a
> > >> cat) She swallowed the cat to catch the bird - and so on through
> > >> the spider and the fly This is a straight out pedagogical ditty -
> > >> with observable and quantifiable memes. Who was it who said that
> > >> if we refuse the lessons of history, we are destined to repeat
> > >> them, (or something like that)? Peace be with you Jeremy
> > >>
> > >And in this case, to not cure the disease will be to suffer greatly
> > >from
> >it,
> > >and to abandon the Iraqi people to suffer. But it isn't PC liberal
> > >to liberate them, or even to notice that they exist except as
> > >anstract lives that have to be preserved from the spectre of
> > >'collateral damage', not oppressed human serfs quietly yearning for
> > >freedom (because to do so out loud earns a bullet - after the
> > >torture); it certainly ain't cool to
> >notice
> > >that they are terrorized and enslaved. Their lives do not rest in
> > >peace; they are quietly desperate by dual necessity.
> > >>
> >Steady Joe
> >I was not being specific here. BTW the jury is still out on much of
> >what you present as fact. AND there are worse things happening in
> >countries which have no oil but are 'friendly to the West' - what
> >about them? AND other countries sponsor terrorism AND have WMDs. All
> >that I was commenting on was the repetition of history and the way
> >that we won't know if we are being hoodwinked until it's too late.
> >There is a lot of biased media around - well all of it really - but
> >if you want to get a reasonable picture of what's going on, shop
> >around. There are online English news services in most countries. As
> >they are all partisan, if you take a reasoned, neutral overview you
> >will be close to the 'truth' of events. Stay cool buddy, we live in
> >interesting times.
> >
> The problem with the repetition of history argument is that it cuts
> both ways. One could easily draw comparisons to Vietnam and how we
> were blindly led into that war. Yet one could also draw comparisons
> (as many usually do) to World War II and appeasement of Hitler. I
> don't know that either comparison works out all that well in an
> historically unique situation.
>
> IIRC comparisons were drawn between Gamel Abdel Nasser and Hitler in
> the time period leading up to Britain, France and Israel's attack on
> Egypt in the Suez campaign. Nasser was a nasty chap in many ways, but
> he stuck around and gave rise to Sadat, who eventually wound up having
> the guts to make a difference that counted (and paying the ultimate
> price for peace).
>
> If Husayn were to kick the bucket any time soon, thanks to mother
> nature, would a Sadat clone take his place?
>
No. One of his two sine, Uday or Osai, would. They are both nasty
pieces of work.
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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