Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA28736 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 30 May 2000 04:33:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01bfc9e7$8e1914e0$392484d8@default> From: "Anne Hansen" <tazzie@bolian.upnaway.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <392D46A0.928A1C7B@mediaone.net> <00052621145200.00626@faichney> <3932DB91.8A7B87F3@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Cui bono, Chuck? Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:31:23 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "chuck" <cpalson@mediaone.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, 30 May 2000 5:05
Subject: Re: Cui bono, Chuck?
>
>
> > You are simply repeating what one of your heroes, Richard Dawkins, says
on the
> subject. Unfortunately for you, when Dawkins gets into the cultural
realm, he,
> simply has no idea what he is talking about because he insists on either
not
> examining the actual data available or, if he does, on lying about it.
>
> I am dead serious when I say that the man is inexcusably ignorant on the
subject
> of culture.
Hi, this has been a interesting discussion, and I appreciate the
view of Dawkins, even as a lover of his writing.
I
For example, in The Selfish Gene, he assures us that cultures vary
> wildly for what he judges to be no valid reasons. He chooses the worst
examples
> of anthropological explanations of cultural variation to illustrate his
point.
> Then he uses two ethnographic examples to to illustrate the range of such
> inexplicable variation: the Ik of Uganda and the Arapish of the Pacific.
If the
> poor doctor had taken the trouble to actually read Turnbull's work on the
> former, he would have discovered that their "utter selfishness" is not
> inexplicable variation in culture, but a result of a years long brutal
famine, a
> fact that Turnbull makes abundantly clear and that no one disputes. Did
Dawkins
> even bother to read Turnbull first before making his sweeping
pronouncement?
> Whether he did or he didn't is not important; he is quite simply a fraud
on the
> subject of culture.
>
> His use of the Arapish is equally ignorant. The author of the ethnpography
on
> the Arapish was Margaret Mead, and it has been proven beyond a doubt and
> accepted by the entire anthropological community that Mead was lying about
her
> data to support her ideological biases (see the work of australian
> anthropologist Derek Freeman). Although Dawkins can be excused for not
knowing
> about this at the time (Freeman's expose was published later), I know of
no
> corection ever issued by Dawkins -- evidently because it suits his
purposes.
>
> So Dawkins, the inventor of the meme concept, is by any ordinary measure a
very
> poor scholar on the subject of culture, and he has managed to reproduce
the same
> poor quality of observation and scholarship in his followers. No wonder he
> praises Blackmore, a person who claims that fax machines and computer
operating
> systems answer no needs -- (in other words, they are "useless"). Ignorance
> begets ignorance, a common disease propogated on many campuses by
professors
> anxious to keep their positions by manufacturing opaque documents based on
their
> prejudices. In fact, one might say that the very existence of memetics
proves
> that useless memes do exist, a direct contradiction to my notion that
culture
> is of practical value. But of course in the perverse culture of academia,
it has
> only furthered his reputation in some circles, so it is of practical
value,
> albeit perversely so.
Speaking of literature written over the last half century on Culture do
you know of any good web links (Favourite Authors) on the subject??
Searches bring up many links but I want sites where I am going to learn
effectively.
Thanks Anne...
> Now one would hope that besides reading extensively on scientific method,
you
> actually have read the previous literature written over the last half
century on
> the subject of culture. After all, a scientist is expected to work with
data in
> a field, not just pronounce about principles by which others should work
with
> data in the field -- as you seem to prefer to do. It is quite clear from
your
> comments that you have so far not seriously studied anything much on the
subject
> of culture, so until you have some actual scholarship with which to make
> pronouncements about culture, you should not mindlessly imitate Dawkins
> obviously uninformed nonsense on the subject.
>
> If, after a few years of absorbing the considerable literature on the
subject,
> you still do not understand why "What's of use to you, as an individual,
is of
> absolutely no evolutionary significance whatsoever" is another
Dawkins-like
> pronouncement, I will be glad to explain it to you. Till then, try not to
merely
> imitate Dawkins' poor scholarship, and just do the hard work necessary to
master
> a field.
>
> >
> > --
> > Robin Faichney
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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