From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Thu 07 Nov 2002 - 07:24:05 GMT
> Dear Richard,
>
> > <<Note that this memetic evolution is entirely in terms of
> > expressions. <smile>, <s>, and :-) all mean the same thing. This
> > means that memes are *not* ideas, at least not all memes. The idea
> > stayed the same while the expression evolved. Those favoring
> > internal memes need to account for such change.>>
> >
> > I'm not sure I get your point here, Bill. How does the fact that
> > "<smile>, <s>, and :-) all mean the same thing" lead to the
> > conclusion that not all memes are ideas? Are you saying that ideas
> > are not involved in my choosing how I express myself?
> >
>
> Ideas may be involved in how we express ourselves, and, in general,
> alternatives differ in both denotation and connotation. But ideas are
> general and abstract. (The OED gives some senses of "idea" that would,
> I think, apply to expressions per se, but they are obsolete.) In this
> case we have three different expressions of the same idea. They were
> in direct competition, and that is why, I think, one scored a clear
> victory. That process of variation and selection did not occur on the
> level of ideas, but it was still the variation and selection of memes.
>
> Phonemes are even clearer examples of memes that are not ideas. Welsh
> LL, which is pronounced like HL with the tongue in the L position when
> the H is made, has two descendents in English, FL and L, as in Floyd
> and Lloyd.
>
> If you restrict memes to ideas you leave out a good bit of culture.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
Phonemes are not ideas, for they do not inculcate meaning, but
morphemes are. Emoticons inculcate meaning, inasmuch as their
function, like that of morphemic prefixes and suffixes, is to modify what
is already present respecting its semantic content.
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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