From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat 02 Nov 2002 - 01:57:17 GMT
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> >From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk, fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: electric meme bombs
> >Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:37:02 -0600
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > >From: joedees@bellsouth.net
> > > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk, fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >Subject: Re: electric meme bombs
> > > >Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:09:43 -0600
> > > >
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > Different people can indeed have similar thoughts, but this
> > > > > > does not mean that several similar actions taken by the same
> > > > > > person do not share a common mental basis. Individual
> > > > > > neurons fire, or do not fire, depending upon their input
> > > > > > from other neuurons, and dynamic gestalt- patterns are
> > > > > > indeed formed, which refer to and represent certain specific
> > > > > > informational types and not others; some of these
> > > > > > information types may be accessed to guide specific action
> > > > > > tokens. Which patterns have been internalized depends upon
> > > > > > an individual's genetic predispositions, personal choices
> > > > > > and environmental history.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don 't deny that either, but that ain 't the thing I was
> > > > > after ! I am fighting the assumption that the bias HAS to be a
> > > > > common one. IMO, maybe it is too hard to comprehend, what
> > > > > commonly is seen as collective is the way by which the
> > > > > evolution of a singularity went up. Everything in nature tends
> > > > > to be (the) getting better/ best. Our course to take this,
> > > > > that this is done along lines of consensus, deliberation and
> > > > > consultation for granted has led us away of what really
> > > > > matters in nature_ the singularity of whatever kind from
> > > > > whereout the evolution of the object/ subject can begin.
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea is to get from the Big bang as singularity to the
> > > > > Universe, from one cell to multiple celluar organisms, from
> > > > > one single idea to the complex state of a memeplex, from one
> > > > > seed of one tree to the whole of the forest which eventually
> > > > > will grow, from the one single hut to the houses in the
> > > > > town.... from singular to plural that is the way evolution
> > > > > follows.
> > > > >
> > > >No, evolution tends to favor progressively more complex and
> > > >elaborated systems, which permit a wider range of possible
> > > >alternatives to the organism, and thus increase the likelihood
> > > >that it will survive to reproduce. Not from singular to
> > > >multiplicity, but from less complex to more complex system.
> > > >
> > > Yet bacteria rule the planet.
> > >
> > > If you draw an imaginary line from monad to man and generalize
> > > from this unidimensional and linearized view of evolution up a
> > > ladder across the whole, you might tend to (mis)perceive a
> > > progressive tendency toward complexity in evolution, especially if
> > > you fail to define "complex" and "elaborate".
> > >
> > > Some of us avoid such cheezy generalizations.
> > >
> >There are more bacteria, but they are much smaller and more limited
> >to particular niches (for each bacterial variant); we can perceive,
> >conceive and act in so many more ways.
> >
> If we are so great and 'evolution tends to favor' us, which your
> argument boils down to, then why do bacteria persist? Why haven't we
> replaced them or sent them into the pit of extinction as a group?
>
> They ain't got no brains and they don't need 'em to stick around on
> this planet, regardless of our existence. Psychologists may look at
> them as beneath consideration, because they ain't got no brains. Are
> you a psych major by any chance? >
>
Nope; I'm a philosphy major (converted from mathematics, which I
found to be too sterile), with minors in psychology, sociology,
anthropology and religious studies. But yet, I keep current on the
cutting edge developments in biology and physics; otherwise, I could
not do what I do as interdisciplinarily well.
Because that's the way ecosystems work. They require a multiplicity of
varying lifeforms occupying unique yet relational and interdependent
niches.
>
> >If evolution permits greater
> freedom of >choice, then we are far more evolved than bacteria. >
> "(F)ar more evolved than bacteria"? That makes no sense. Come to think
> of it this whole statement (from IF to THEN) makes no sense. >
>
In that case, why have there been bacteria for a long long time, but
bhumans only geologically recently?
>
>>I'll
> believe >otherwise when bacteria build rockets and check out the moon.
> > In all our superior wisdom we have developed antibiotics for medical
> usage. The stupid bacteria keep pulling the self-serving pedestal from
> beneath us as strains emerge with are resistant to these wondrous
> tools of human intellectaul superiority. As doctors, the really smart
> cookies of our species, overprescribe antibiotics for lame reasons
> (like the common *viral* cold), more resistant strains will emerge and
> the nasty bacteria may actually win out. >
>
Yes, it is a coevolutionary race. But at least we know that it is going on;
they don't.
>
>>Of >course there is no
> cosmic value associated with our greater possibilities >as a result of
> our greater complexity, but this does not mean that our >greater
> abilities are not there, nor that they are not a result of our
> >greater complexity. > Bacteria are able to become resistant to
> antibiotics. They don't need our "greater complexity" to perform this
> feat. If they become resistant to all available antibiotics, who then
> has the "greater ability"?
We always have the ability to find other weaknesses to exploit; the
difference is that we are intentionally seeking them, and they are blindly
evolving defenses. If two football teams play, and one knows the rules
and the objective and the other does not, who do you think will
ultimately win the game?
>
> You have an odd view of evolution.
>
You have an incomplete view of the advantages evolution proffers.
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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