Re: I know one when I see one

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Fri 01 Nov 2002 - 22:39:57 GMT

  • Next message: Wade T.Smith: "Re: I know one when I see one"

    >
    > On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 03:39 , joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
    >
    > > Pemes would necessarily have to be tokens of meme types.
    >
    > Again, you cross models to say that. Pemes are the _only_ units of
    > cultural transmission in the pemetic model and the pemetic model has
    > no need for memesinthemind. The 'type/token' relationship you are so
    > fond of is only an interpretation of the similarity of performances,
    > not any actuality of them.
    >
    Nope; you cannot transmit what you do not posses, but if you possess the type, you can transmit multiple tokens of it, which may differ in specifics, yet nevertheless be meme-bers of the general set.
    >
    > In the memesinthemind model, yes, the performance has to be a token of
    > the meme type. But the memesinthemind model does not use pemes- the
    > cultural unit is the memeinthemind, not the performance. The
    > performance is only an instantiation of the meme in the memesinthemind
    > model.
    >
    But your memeinthebody model ignores the mind, precisely because it cannot observe it; this is precisely what watsonian and skinnerian behaviorism did. They were proven wrong by the cognitive revolution decades ago, and if the whole is mistaken, so must be your part.
    >
    > Such instantiation still, to be accepted by anyone, needs _some_ proof
    > there is a memeinthemind (different from ideas, considerations, mental
    > rehearsals, etc.) to begin with.
    >
    But ideas, considerations, mental rehearsals, etc., are themselves meme-types. You cannot admit them while simultaneously denying the existence of mental memes without miring yourself in blatant and irretrieveable contradiction.
    >
    > Not just a conjecture, silly as it is.
    >
    fMRI and PET scan experimental evidence is corroboration enough to sustain the theory. After all, science does not deal in absolutes; only religion attempt that impossible feat.
    >
    > - Wade
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

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