Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA09845 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 26 May 2000 02:45:13 +0100 From: "havelock" <havelock@tig.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Shaving Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:44:13 +1000 Message-ID: <LNBBJFJFCJFOIJDOGJMAIEJGEPAA.havelock@tig.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <392D8871.293A940F@mediaone.net> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
even more about hair
>
> havelock wrote:
>
>
> Passive symbol? I think a lot of hair is always associated with
> hypermasculinity, whether it be Sampson in the bible or the rough
> outdoorsman.
Hair is not about hypermasculinity...you're missing half of the evidence -
women have hair symbolism as well. Social meanings behind their hair, as
with men, have more to do with regeneration symbols.
> Separate them from the herd? Well, if no one else is doing it, of
> course it
> separates them, but why use the beard? Why not use a sign like "I love
> pacifists" or, better, if the want to advertise their
> passiveness, why not dress
> in more feminine clothes? Intuitively that doesn't work, and I think it's
> because they would have wanted to appear more aggressive to compensate,
> especially during WWII when everyone went off to kill the enemy.
wearing a beard is a passive choice...it's part of the human makeup. Most
males can grow a beard, of some description, so it is not easily dismissed.
The moment that you introduce cloths or some other external symbol you
change the dynamic.
You also appear to see a strong corrolation of pacifism with unmanlyness - I
don't know where you get this from... womens cloths?
No one would suggest that Gandi's wall of flesh was the act of a wimp.
>
> >
> >
> > I would like to think that pacificts are not a minority in any society.
>
> Letting your preferences for what you would like color you observations of
> people happens much to often in the social sciences and makes for
> some very
> fuzzy thinking.
I was probably not communicating clearly in an email, for you... it's not
what I would like it is what I expect could be proven from any simple
observation of the human species. While it's questionable that we are not
all passive I don't see any evidence that we are militant all the time. The
point was that the trigger is generally in the hands of a minority that
mobilises the majority.
As far as I was aware fuzzy logic has led to very interesting developments
in social and techinical science ...it is observers that want to look in the
world in binary forms that are the danger.
>
> > Sure the herd will follow the leader in any culture. As a
> species while we
> > have a capacity for war we are 'generally' benign.
> > Wars are started by individuals not peoples that is the nature of a
> > hierachical society.
>
> It isn't at all that simple. Remember that there were many people
> in London who
> had fond memories of WWII because status differences temporarily
> vanished in the
> name of the common effort. People often have a love/hate
> relationship with war
> -- like they do with a lot of things in life.
you doing what you were just complaining of before in this thread,
"analyzing too much on a personal level". I am looking at the human species
from a macro-perspective not in terms of how individuals think. I'm quite
sure what we think of war is to a large extent sheparded by the government
and the media anyway. There are many memes that can be used to turn on and
off pro and against feelings for any social situation. 1984 ?
>
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