Re: Standard definition

From: Philip Jonkers (ephilution@attbi.com)
Date: Sun 27 Oct 2002 - 18:03:28 GMT

  • Next message: Bill Spight: "Re: I know one when I see one"

    Bill:
    > Such analysis may lead to units at different levels: organs, cells,
    > chromosomes, genes, molecules, atoms, protons, electrons, for instance.
    > Units at one level may be constituents of units at a higher level.
    > Analytical units, then, need not be indivisible.
    >
    > There is a special problem with memes as analytical units, however,
    > which Vincent alluded to: the level problem. Morphemes (such as "morph",
    > "eme", "ad", "lude", "philo", "soph", and "er") and phonemes (such as
    > "m", long "e", "d", and short "a") are both, arguably, memes. They are
    > units and they are culturally inherited. But at the same time, phonemes
    > may be considered as constituents of morphemes. For instance, long "e"
    > and "m" make up "eme". If they are both memes then we have memes
    > constituting other memes. What kind of units are those?

    And hence we discover the inherent *recursive* trait of the concept of the meme. A computer is a unit, it's also a unit of culture. But so is the pentium IV that's in it. It's a cultural unit within a cultural unit. A meme within a meme. There's no way around it. And hence a cultural unit is not only indivisible, it's even recursively divisible! Wham bam thank you ma'am... :-)

    Phil

    > In practice, this is not a problem as long as you are clear about which
    > level you are talking about. For a long time I considered memes as units
    > for different levels, and it was fine to have memes for one level
    > composed of memes for a lower level. But there is an alternative that I
    > find attractive.
    >
    > A linguistic unit, the lexeme, has the same problem of levels. Lexemes
    > include words but can be larger or smaller:
    >
    > > A lexeme is the minimal unit of language which
    > >
    > > has a semantic interpretation and
    > > embodies a distinct cultural concept.
    > (
    > http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsALexeme.htm
    > )
    >
    > In particular, catch-phrases, such as "Give me a break!" are lexemes
    > that are composed of lexemes. Sydney Lamb ("Pathways of the Brain"),
    > speaks to this problem of level for lexemes: "The process of
    > lexicalization is typically a gradual one: The first time a new
    > combination is formed by a speaker, it must be constructed as a
    > combination of units previously learned. . . . But for subsequent uses
    > it need not be constructed again if it is remembered as a unit. (p. 165)
    >
    > "Now, a lexeme can begin to have a life of its own from a semantic point
    > of view as soon as it is treated as a unit. (p. 167)"
    >
    > Earlier he says, "Lexemes are the units *which are learned . . . as
    > units.* (p. 31)"
    >
    > As the title of his book indicates, Lamb takes a neuro-cognitive
    > perspective. For him a lexeme is a functional unit, which is remembered
    > and learned *as a unit*.
    >
    > Similarly, we may consider memes to be those constituents of culture
    > that are inherited *as units*. This functional definition does not
    > commit us to a neuro-cognitive perspective, but it does avoid the level
    > problem of analytical units. :-)
    >
    > Ciao,
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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