RE: electric meme bombs

From: Vincent Campbell (VCampbell@dmu.ac.uk)
Date: Thu 17 Oct 2002 - 11:06:21 GMT

  • Next message: Vincent Campbell: "RE: electric meme bombs"

    I wish you guys had told me all this before I rushed out and bought a copy
    :-)

    I haven't read it yet, put off by it being a memes in mind model, and a bit by the detailed neuroscience and biology stuff- that apparently is all wrong anyway, but I wouldn't have picked that up.

    Vincent

    > ----------
    > From: Scott Chase
    > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 4:13 AM
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Subject: Re: electric meme bombs
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >From: William Benzon <bbenzon@mindspring.com>
    > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > >To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    > >Subject: Re: electric meme bombs
    > >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:16:51 -0400
    > >
    > >on 10/15/02 6:46 PM, Bill Spight at bspight@pacbell.net wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > Aunger is consistent about identifying memes in terms of networks of
    > > > neurons.
    > >
    > >And a network of neurons is a thing, not a state of a thing.
    > >
    > > >I'm not sure what he means by a configuration, nor am I sure
    > > > that he is sure. But he is fairly clear, elsewhere, that memes are
    > > > defined by function rather than structure.
    > >
    > >Sure, within any one paragraph he's consistent. But he's got to be
    > >consistent across all his paragraphs. He's not.
    > >
    > > >A state has certain
    > > > behavioral correlates, but its reproduction within one brain or within
    > > > another brain does not have to reproduce the same neuronal structure.
    > > >
    > > > It is possible, I think, to represent such a meme as a network of
    > > > prototypical neurons and synapses, each of which plays a certain role
    > or
    > > > performs a certain function, but which is realized differently in each
    > > > concrete instance. Such a network cannot be identified under the
    > > > microscope.
    > >
    > >A network is a network. You can identify them under microscopes. It may
    > >not
    > >be the case that any two people have the same networks. But, whatever
    > >networks a person has, you can look at them under a microscope.
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Given his emphasis on the difference between his definition and that
    > of
    > > > Dawkins, I think that Aunger had such a network in mind
    > >
    > >For all I know, Dawkins had a network in mind as well.
    > >
    > > >...and is guilty of
    > > > imprecise language rather than internal contradiction. That's hardly
    > the
    > > > only instance of loose talk in the book. ;-)
    > >
    > >Right, his neural memetics is a tissue of imprecision. It's must a bunch
    >
    > >of
    > >flim-flam. All it says is that memes are itty bitty things in the
    > nervous
    > >system that replicate. Anything beyond that is just ornamental detail.
    > >
    > >What you don't seem to realize is that, when Aunger committed himself to
    > >getting serious about the nervous system, he left the world where vague
    > >metaphor was OK.
    > >
    > >
    > When he committed himself to explaining basic molecular and cell biology
    > (eg-ribosomes and complementary base pairing) , he should have been a
    > little
    > more serious in editing out mistakes, which I've pointed to in previous
    > posts. If those areas were sloppy, how confident should one be with the
    > rest
    > of the book?
    >
    >
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    > ===============================================================
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    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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