Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA29489 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 25 May 2002 19:52:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c2041e$01d59620$62a7eb3e@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com> References: <570E2BEE7BC5A34684EE5914FCFC368C10FD02@fillan.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Experiment Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:56:37 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
> The lack of physical/verbal force governing both sets of people
> really undermined the guards I think. They knew that their possible
> sanctions weren't punishments really, although they didn't even try these
> most of the time.
<< They didn 't play the game rightly from the beginning on ! There were
social/ cultural/ political/.... prejudices in people's mind about which
were
for particular situation unapproiate !
I think the final programme's conclusions about the
> emergence of tyranny in a vacuum of power weren't right. They should have
> let that guy try his coup. Maybe one (or more) of them would have tried
> non-compliance (without the threat of force even a coward like me might
have
> tried this), to reinforce the view that leadership and power is understood
> by many people today to rest on consent, and those who govern by force
can't
> handle peaceful non-compliance. But the experiment's leaders weren't
> prepared to let that opportunity arise.
<<Yeah, it was he conclusion drawn after the experiment leaders stopped
it. IMO, at that moment it was the conclusion to make, though.
Of course, if they would have let the experiment going on, the outcome
would have been completely different, but nevertheless the non- compliance
bit would have taking away the strain of the experiment.
If the coup would have been succesful, if thus the man were once divided
into guards and inmates ( where guards and inmates would have switched
sides) I don 't think some would have choosing for non- compliance.
Leadership and power would have sound differently.
Still, it was a fascinating piece
> of TV, and I only hope that the trouble-maker who leads a church youth
group
> in real life doesn't lose his job as a result (although maybe the kids
will
> recognise the value in challenging the arbitrary authority of the church
the
> way he challenged the arbitrary authority of the guards, and the kids will
> be free of the thrall of religion).
<< Yes, this was a strange affect ! Why, as for as we know it he wasn 't
like that at all in real life ! He didn 't challenge any of the church-
values !
What made him challenge those of the guards !? Was it a religious thing !?
Only god has the right to judge mankind, that kind of grap !?
On the other hand, now learning in a way kids to challenge the authority
of the church would be disastrous for him, but I ain 't over the fact that
he
was pulling one or more legs. The trouble- makers weren 't ' real '...
They did comprimise the intention of the experiment, they too didn 't
play up to their role.
> Maybe they should repeat the experiment with women.
<< Yes, maybe they should.
Regards,
Kenneth
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