Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA02789 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 11 May 2002 19:48:57 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c1f91d$2391a580$01a3eb3e@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com> References: <570E2BEE7BC5A34684EE5914FCFC368C10FCBA@fillan.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: future language Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:52:45 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
> And I guess the guy who killed him thought he was saving the world from
> another fascist, but may instead have created a martyr whose party may now
> do better in the election as a result.
>
> Still, the whole incident occurring in Holland really does mean we're
living
> in... interesting times (as the old threat goes).
Hi Vincent,
Yes it is a very interesting time and a very interesting case indeed.
From my POV this boils down to the notion of ' memes at work ', though.
Pim Fortuyn, as well as his muderer expressed their deep innate individual
feelings and we should be grateful they did.
Racism, intolerance, fascism or whatever negative to be may be not so
political correct, they are expessions of someone's individualism, and in
a sense of someone 's memes. Those notions, like Philip points out, are
in a way innate, and so, damn what people are, what people think or
act upon !
And yes, the murderer thought he killed for the good cause, and in his
mind he did, there was no doubt !
And yes, we should be worried if all of the people would express them-
selves in the same ways Fortuyn and his murderer did, but in my mind
that boils down to the core of memetics_ we in a sense, I hope, can
explain in a way why those two acted like they did, there may be no
reasons for us to see, but atleast we can understand this theoretically.
And no, there is no reason to bann racism, intolerance... out of the pic-
ture. Like in Belgium with the Dutroux case, like in England with the
death of Lady Di, in Holland the murder of Fortuyn made the people
once again ,even it is for a short while ( and it will be just that, I don
't
really think much will be changed) believe in themselves.
Although, with the election next week,... the LPF can win it, but it
can 't keep the ' powers ' in place, IMO. The bias they seek to replace
is yet to strong. If the LPF can move like it wants and those powers
counterattack, like they would/ should, I think Holland is in for some
trouble(s)...
Racism,... are just part of the human nature, you can try to control it,
but as it is often in such cases, our social and cultural institutions
embody
as well restrain our competitive and ' agressive ' tendencies.
In a way, politics must find ways to deal with those, instead of finding
ways to solve the " insecurity- feelings " people have. Those things
are linked !
In a way, they must learn the language of the people they try to govern,
something obviously they didn 't and don 't, and IMO, never will !
( I have somewhere an article on this, I will try to find it...)
Regards,
Kenneth
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