Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA06585 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 10 May 2002 02:02:25 +0100 Message-ID: <005301c1f7bc$92916900$5e2ffea9@oemcomputer> From: "Philip Jonkers" <philipjonkers@prodigy.net> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <LAW2-F1145Rw1SSfWXW0000215d@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Fw: future language Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:49:40 -0700 Organization: Prodigy Internet Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: future language
> >Subject: Fw: future language
> >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:45:00 +0200
> >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Scott Chase <ecphoric@hotmail.com>
> > > > Well, to make some crucial qualifiers to what I've said about
> >diversity
> > > > preservation, I'd not lament the loss of cultural practices like
> >female
> > > > circumcision, cannabilism, honor crimes or others of that
> >reprehensible
> > > ilk.
> > > > Here in the U.S. we've managed to eliminate some of our more
> >reprehensible
> > > > practices and institutions like slavery and added a couple good ones
> >like
> > > > women's suffrage and civil rights though patriarchy and racism have
a
> >ways
> > > > to go before going extinct. Good riddance when (or if) they do.
> > > >
> > > > But, I still think there's a lot to be learned and even more reasons
> >for
> > > the
> > > > maximization of diversity, as long as said diversity doesn't involve
> >the
> > > > violation of basic human rights.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Scott,
> > > >
> > > > I think you are in the wrong here concerning that it is a good point
> >to
> > > get
> > > > rid of racism or whatever is being seen as " wrong " out there !
> > > >
> > > > Don 't get me wrong me, though, I recognise that racism is no good
at
> > > > all, but you can 't just eliminate it by making up laws ordering
> >people
> >to
> > > > do so_ that implies, involves the violation of basic human rights !
> > > > If, racism has a genetical or for that reason a memetical bias you
> >just
> > > > can 't forbid people to be racistic, it won 't work !
> > > > If you do, you set up people against their inner themselves and that
> >is
> > > > in my book perversive to the extreme.
> > > >
> > > > In my country, Belgium, it is by law forbidden to express oneself as
> >to
> > > > be anti-semitic, we have a few anti- racistic laws to, even a
centrum
> > > > for equality and human rights. All for the best, I know and I
presume
> >it
> > > > is, but try to understand what went on in our minds in the period of
> >the
> > > > Israel- Palestinian clashes. Pro- Palestinian demonstrations were
beat
> > > > up, basically due to the anti- racistic anti- semitic laws, where do
> >you
> > > > think my basic human freedom to protest was !?
> > > >
> > > > What Israel did played up my emotions and there was no platform, no
> > > > public forum avaible left to express mine and our feelings !
> > > > Do you think that is good or right ! I don 't !
> > > > And concerning this thread, banning racism as a word can 't bann the
> > > > fact of it !
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Kenneth
> > > >
> I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the use of the term
racism.
> People of different cultures have natural preferences that favor their
own
> culture that have nothing to do with race and everything to do with the
> memes they have inherited in the form of language and religion and who is
> good and who is bad. People who don't understand our language and customs
> are thought of as barbarians in almost every culture I have encountrered
in
> the world. But from a racial point of view, what are the racially
> distinguishing features of protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland?
> What racial features separate Serbs and Croats? How are the Flemmish
> racially different from the French? And yet you have the same hatreds and
> prejudice between each of these groups as you have between black and white
> or Asian and black. The mainstream Japanese are prejudiced against the
> Ainu, the Hindu is prejudiced against the Muslim, and the Hindus
themselves
> are diveded into castes that act toward each other the same way whites act
> toward blacks in South Africa. People will always find ways to look down
> their noses at other groups and divide themselves into people and
> barbarians. It is a fact of human nature and I have no doubt that it is
> genetically built into us because it is so universal among the human race.
> I don't know of a single culture that doesn't have some other culture it
can
> look down upon. And usually, race has little or nothing to do with the
> feeling. Culture is by far the most divisive feature of war and
separation.
> We often refer to that as racism, but it's not. It's cultural division
> and plain old human nature and not likely to be legislated out of
existence.
I agree with you Grant on this and I also find that `racism' is hardly the
right qualifier.
Perhaps fascism (or its kid-brother: jingoism) fits the bill better?
Phil.
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